S8 Ep 7 Transcription
S8 E7 | Replay | "Supporting Older Siblings While in the NICU with Child Life On Call"
Ashley & Aisha: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Dear NICU Mama Podcast. This podcast is a safe place to connect with other NICU moms by listening to interviews with trauma informed medical and maternal mental health experts, remarkable stories from the NICU, and intentional roundtable conversations. Our hope is that you feel like you're sitting across the table from another NICU sister and feel seen and validated in your experience.
Ashley & Aisha: No matter where you are on your healing journey, this podcast is here to remind you that you are not alone. Welcome to the Sisterhood.
Ashley: Happy Monday, beautiful mamas. It's your favorite
Ashley: co hosts, us. I feel like we should like, the double
Ashley: A's. We are. Asha and Ashley,
Aisha: Oh my gosh!
Ashley: what was that? Oh, it was that
Ashley: girl band back, Ally and
Ashley: AJ
Aisha: Oh my gosh! Wow! What a throwback!
Ashley: can be our [00:01:00] band name.
Aisha: Wait, what was
Aisha: there? Single.
Ashley: Oh, I gotta find
Ashley: it now. I was like, my Wi Fi is so bad right now. So it might take a second. Let's see. Oh, are you ready for this?
Ashley: It took too
Aisha: Yes, I'm ready.
Ashley: it took too long,
Ashley: for you to call back. And now all I have was just my
Aisha: So cool.
Aisha: Oh
Ashley: bad,
Ashley: bad. Except for the fact It was my birthday. my stupid birthday.
Aisha: was birthday. Oh, that is amazing. Oh my gosh. I feel so young and rejuvenated. I think that is our
Aisha: calling, for sure.
Aisha: Oh my
Aisha: gosh. Is it still playing? Are you still
Aisha: playing it?
Ashley: No! are you just hearing it residual?
Aisha: It's just in my head. It
Ashley: It is a very catchy song. Um, wow.
Ashley: I actually want to see what
Ashley: year that came out. Let's see.
Ashley: 2007
Ashley: Wow, no 2006 2006 and I wish you could see this album
Ashley: cover.
Ashley: They the moon is the background and they are
Ashley: standing on
Ashley: suitcases or like road
Ashley: cases
Aisha: How old
Aisha: were you?
Ashley: This is hilarious. I wonder where the moon came
Ashley: in.
Ashley: I wonder where they were like, this needs to be in the background.
Ashley: This.
Aisha: Amazing.
Ashley: Oh my gosh. Can you imagine? Look out for
Ashley: Aisha and Ashley's album happening in
Ashley: the next month or so. I'm highly
Aisha: when hitchhiking was cool as well.
Ashley: Oh, dang it. I'm so sorry.
Ashley: Okay. Can you hear
Ashley: me now?
Ashley: I'm gonna throw my
Ashley: internet in the garbage. I'm literally gonna
Ashley: throw it in the garbage
Ashley: and never look at it again. Oh, so sorry.
Ashley: Goodness gracious. Okay, Well, mamas, uh,
Ashley: thanks for
Ashley: your patience with us having a little bit of
Ashley: a throwback moment there. Um, I hope it brought you
Ashley: back. to 2006 and all of the goodness that was in 2006. Simpler. times, really. But we are talking, [00:02:00] well actually today's a replay episode of something that's not so simple and which is why we wanted to re share it. Um, back in, was it season six? Season seven? We did an episode with the remarkable Katie from Child Life On Call. We have had her on the podcast a few times because she's just a wealth of knowledge and her website and her Everything that she does for both providers and families is just exceptional. She provides exceptional resources for everything from preparing your child for a major surgery to a course that we're going to talk about here in a second, all about preparing your NICU or kiddos for shots.
Ashley: It doesn't have to be NICU kiddos. It can be any kiddo, you know, NICU or not. But we wanted to just replay this because it's a topic that is very complex and it is how to support your kids at home while you have a baby in the NICU. And following Carolissa's episode, we thought it would be just a really timely time to re share it because she had to split time in the NICU with both of her kiddos. And we've had so many mamas in our community who have walked that walk and so this episode is just a wealth, a wealth of knowledge.
Ashley: Um, let's see. So we thought this episode could be timely to re share because following Caralissa's part two of last week, she navigated supporting her daughter at home while having a baby in the NICU and we know that so many of the moms in our community walk through this and sometimes it can feel really isolating and lonely [00:03:00] and you're just kind of wondering How do I be a mom to a baby?
Ashley: All of my kiddos and do it well and so this episode is jam packed with just practical wisdom but also just gentle reminders that you are doing the absolute best you can and that is enough.
Aisha: Yes. And to all of our listeners, Katie has a special discount for you for a course that she has on how to help your kiddos, um, and medical experiences. So don't miss out on that. That's an awesome resource. Um, if you,
Ashley: Is it about
Aisha: I think it's about shots. It doesn't say specific. She said shots in the email. So maybe I should say that, but in the.
Aisha: When the, when I was looking at the course, it says medical experiences. but then in the description, it says, do your kids have shots? But maybe I should include it. Right.
Ashley: It is kind of
Aisha: I'll just say like shots, right?
Ashley: yeah, this is
Aisha: Let me see.
Ashley: Here, wait. Oh, during shots and other medical procedures, it
Aisha: if you're joined, responding to your child during shots, but then it says, is your child scared of shots? Join Katie Taylor and certified child life specialists and other parents to master the art of preparing, supporting, and responding to your child during shots. This is evidence
Ashley: then it says, what, what will I learn in this course? You'll learn a variety of techniques to support your child during shots and other medical procedures. But maybe we'll just say shots.
Aisha: Yeah. Okay. All right. No, you're good. Um, and for all of our listeners, Katie is giving us a special discount code for a course on how to navigate shots, which I just had to deal with that for Ava's first time. Four year checkup. She had, um, a vaccine due and it was not pretty. So I wish I would have had this course.
Aisha: So look out for that in the description, but mamas, we hope you enjoy this episode. Again, if you've already listened, it's always great to have these reminders in our back pocket. And if you haven't listened, we hope that you gain so much knowledge from Katie and all she had to share. Having a sibling and a baby in the NICU.
Ashley: Woohoo! Well, we will be back next week with another really fun Mamas call in. We're super [00:04:00] excited about it, so make sure to follow us on social to see what that prompt is. But we love you Mamas, and we'll catch you guys next week. Have a great rest of your day!
Interview: Hi friends and welcome back to the Interview podcast. It's your host, Martha and Ashley.
Interview: Ashley, how are you doing up there? You know, we're doing all right. How are you doing down there? Oh, it's fine. Based on our screen, our video screens here. Oh, I was saying, I was saying 350 miles north. That's what I meant. And I'm looking at our Brady Bunch looking screen right now of videos and that's where I came up with that.
Interview: How, how, um. How are you doing? You are just leaving a short season of surgery recovery with you and your sweet little one, Silas. How was that? Yeah. How was your mental health? What happened? How's my mental health? Uh, we went into fight or flight and it was great. No, it was good. Um, tonsillectomy [00:05:00] is wild because it's like a very common procedure.
Interview: So I knew that like the doctor knew what he was doing. It was like nothing, you know, crazy. But the recovery is very long and it's really difficult to tell a toddler that they can't eat What they want to eat So he got very sick of pudding and popsicles and ice cream very quickly, but we officially are back at daycare again We are back to a normal routine with the exception of a blizzard coming tonight So we probably won't have daycare tomorrow, but at least he's feeling better And he's been having pretzels and crackers and he's he's living his best life.
Interview: So I'm so glad. I think you handled it really well and you did a lot of work to make sure you had space during that too, which was good to like get away because when you're home alone with a sick kiddo 24 7, you start to go crazy. You go a little cuckoo. Yeah. Coffee drives were my, uh, were my therapy. I would literally put a podcast in, strap him in his [00:06:00] car seat, go for a drive and drink my coffee.
Interview: And it was glorious. It was wonderful. Um, it was also really cool because you told me about some incredible child life specialists that helped prepare him for the surgery. Oh, what a connection. What a connection. I, you know, I kind of forgot about that. Thanks for reminding me. But it's, it's, uh, what is that thing that kids do?
Interview: Oh, connection like this in preschool. When you have a connecting thought. Okay. You can cut that out because I'm getting totally blank stares from both of you. I have not seen that, but I trust you. I haven't seen that before. It sounds nice. Well, and also this is a podcast. I don't think people can see.
Interview: Yeah. There's a lot of times that I'm doing a lot of things. For those listening today, I would like you to envision, like, a paper chain. Right. Martha was kind of trying to make a paper chain with her index and thumb and, uh, it [00:07:00] worked. Right. It did something. My daughter, just, she came home, she'd be like, I want a dog and Benjamin B.
Interview: at school has a dog. Connecting thoughts, like, and then she would do the paper thing with her finger. Are you sure JJ didn't just, like, create that? Yeah, probably, but maybe Benjamin B has a dog. I don't know. I haven't asked him, but I will go and ask him tomorrow. Um, uh, anyway, the whole connecting thoughts thing was actually about the fact that Silas had a great child life specialist experience and today We have, we're welcoming back Katie Taylor from Child Life On Call, um, extraordinaire.
Interview: And also I was just staring at your headshot. Oh my gosh, that's incredible. Oh, thank you. Welcome. We're so glad that you're here. Thanks for having me. It was hard for me to hear you talk about the tontillectomy and I was like, I hope she had a child life specialist and I'm glad that you did. It made such a huge difference.
Interview: He had his surgery on Tuesday, on a Tuesday and the Friday before we went in and he got [00:08:00] to like see the room, he got to take like a little, uh, oxygen mask home with him to like get used to it. In fact, he was playing surgery with all of his stuffed animals prior and then when we got there, it was adorable because he was so comfortable.
Interview: He was like, bye mom and dad. Like he did. He was just like, this is my favorite place ever. So they did a really really good job of preparing him. It was great. Oh, that's the beauty of preparation and I love the pre surgery tours. I highly recommend them if your hospital has them because you're there when it's not a stressful time.
Interview: Like it's like, let's go see these things. It's not like you're having surgery today. Yeah, for sure. No, I could. It was amazing. It seriously changed how prepared he felt for it and almost like excited for it. He was like, oh, I've been here before. This is awesome. So he, he had a blast. It was great. Yeah. I have a little thing.
Interview: Silas just happens to be like a very incredible young man. He's just a very sweet and thoughtful, um, [00:09:00] kid who just processes things really well. I was around him after the surgery and he like still was beaming ear to ear. He was such a sweetheart. Such a gem. He is my little sweetheart. I do love him very much.
Interview: Sweeter than some children we know. Um, that are mine. Not true. Not true. Katie, welcome back. Thank you for being here. Um, before we jump into the questions, I was wondering, this is a good thought. I don't think we have it written down, but can you explain Child Life on Call quickly and also what, what is child, what are child life specialists?
Interview: What do they do? Yeah, of course. So I am Katie. I'm a certified Child Life Specialist and I have a little bit of a sexy voice today Because I'm yeah, geez, and so I hope you guys enjoy that I'm so grateful to be back with the two of you because y'all crack me up and I'm a solo podcaster So whenever I can come play it feels really cool So Child Life Specialists, we for the most part primarily work in pediatric facilities and children's hospitals And our goal, um, is to really help kids and [00:10:00] families cope with the hospital medical experience.
Interview: We have backgrounds in child development and also psychosocial care. And so we really look at the whole, uh, life span of children and families and mental health. how we can best support them. Usually that comes with a lot of preparation and medical education and resources and support and coping skills and all that good stuff.
Interview: So I am the CEO and founder of Child Life On Call and really our whole mission is to spread awareness about child life services by empowering parents to really be their kid's own child life specialist and give you the tips, tools, and resources that you need to feel equipped when you're in these unexpected health care situations.
Interview: You're such a badass. You're so cool. Yeah. Oh man. Thanks guys. You guys make me feel cool You you are cool and your sexy voice. I'm gonna add some like jazz music undertone to your introduction Hey everybody [00:11:00] Yes, well And it's such a treat to have you. We, after we had our first interview with you, we knew we wanted to do this again.
Interview: It was so fun to talk with you, but also just so enlightening. We had team members from all over the U. S. who said things like, I didn't even know that that type of care would have been accessible or possible, and so educating about child life specialists in general was super, super amazing. But as we kind of complete our season six here, We wanted to have you back because we're talking a lot about growing our families after NICU, and for many of us who've had a NICU experience, um, we know that there is a potential risk to have another one.
Interview: Um, many of us who are considering having more kids know that it's possible that that could happen again, and sometimes when we think about that, it's overwhelming to think about how we would ever be able to juggle both a child at home, And a child in the NICU and we know this is a reality for current NICU families, families who've had kids and then have a [00:12:00] baby in the NICU.
Interview: And so this conversation as a whole our hope is that it really empowers Our moms listening to first of all remove the shame and guilt that we feel when we can't magically be in all places at one time But also offer, um hope and And tools on how you can continue to bond with both your babies or both your kiddos And also encourage a bond between your older child at home and your baby in the NICU So we're really excited to have you here.
Interview: I know this is a recurring Thread that we see in our private support group. We get questions about this all the time on our social media So we're really excited to dig into this conversation and hear your professional opinion on it all Yeah, thank you. I, um, worked in the NICU here in Austin, Texas, which is where I live, and one of my primary goals was really to support siblings.
Interview: And so, I hope that validates that there was literally a whole clinical professional in a NICU for this reason. So that validates that [00:13:00] this is a big deal. It is worth talking about. Um, and I, I think, um, Kind of, as you said, Ashley, the shame and guilt for not being able to be in two places as one at once is just a crappy situation and it doesn't, you're never going to feel like you're winning or mastering.
Interview: So the more, I hate to say it, but you become comfortable with this. Temporary but very real pain of a lose lose like you have to leave one child for the other Um, it's just kind of the acceptance and knowing that every other families are navigating it, too Well, you kind of said it already when you when you reiterated that but i'd love to come Turn back to something that you said of kind of that acceptance piece Of accepting our limitations of just not being able to physically be in two places at one time And so We think we know the answer to this or we hope we know the answer to this, but is there a wrong or right way to [00:14:00] approach this?
Interview: Is there a wrong or right way to, you know, be present for both of your children? And, you know, what kind of encouragement or compassion would you offer for mamas who find themselves in this situation or are worrying about this potential situation in the future? Yeah, I think I would usually say there's no wrong way to handle this, but I think the right way to handle it is to To give yourself grace is to take a minute and step back and realize if somebody else was going through this, how would I look at them?
Interview: Would I think they're leaving their child? I think they're prioritizing their child in the NICU. No. And so I think the right way to handle it is to really be reflective about how you would see somebody else do it and give yourself that. Um, you only know what you know and you can't make a better decision than what the information that you have right at that time.
Interview: So. As we talk today, if you have already had other kids or you didn't do this when your baby was in the NICU, you know, give [00:15:00] yourself a break and just, we only know what we know. And so ultimately at that time, you made the best decision possible for you and your family. And the advice I give you today and the advice you get all the time from, Whether it's about parenting or just being a professional, take it with a grain of salt and just trust your instinct that you know your family best.
Interview: Um, and I, that's the, I think that's the right way to handle it.
Interview: What if you had been like, yeah, you're doing it wrong. You know, I thought about it. Here's how you do it. Right. I wish somebody would tell me like, for sure, this is how you do it. Right. Well, and it's, it's really is like an extension of what you're, everything that you're experiencing in the NICU. It's a lot of, um, compromises and, and unexpected things you didn't imagine.
Interview: Right. Um, and so just as you would give yourself self compassion and grace for those things you would, you would in this case too. Yeah, absolutely. So, oftentimes, we kind of envision the, uh, [00:16:00] you know, letting your child know that they're going to be a big brother or sister with an exciting t shirt or a little party.
Interview: We put it on our social media. And then sometimes that really exciting celebratory moment, um, is followed by their sibling being in the NICU. And now we're having to also explain to them, yes, your sibling was born. but they're sick and they're gonna be in the NICU and now mommy and daddy or mommy or daddy need to be present when they're able to.
Interview: So can we just start with some ways that we can introduce this this whole entire concept to our kids without scaring them or without making them feel like it's now their responsibility as an older sibling to fix it or that kind of thing? Absolutely. Um, it makes complete sense that you wouldn't know exactly what to say or feel comfortable having this conversation, right?
Interview: This isn't what you envisioned. So if you're feeling nervous about how to say it to your [00:17:00] child, that makes complete sense. Um, this isn't something that you plan for, but what, what I think we can do is really look at how we deliver any kind of complex information to our kids. And so hopefully this applies to you here as we talk about this NICU experience specifically, but in the future as you're navigating difficult conversations as we know are going to come up.
Interview: So I have kind of a four step approach, um, when looking at this. And so I hope this is helpful. And maybe if you can even write it down to just kind of process, you know, how it works for you and your child. So, um, the first one is to assess your status. Your older child who we're talking about right now, their temperament, their personality and their developmental level.
Interview: So you'll cater this and you may have more than one child. And so you may notice that one child has a personality to really respond emotionally. And the other child tends to, to retreat. And Both are okay, right? Both are perfectly acceptable ways for kids to [00:18:00] process information. Um, so there's no wrong or right way for your child to react.
Interview: The other thing you want to watch for when you're delivering any kind of complex information or maybe upsetting information to kids is to really watch their cues. Kids are so good at telling us when they're not interested, right? They'll like literally walk away, ignore you. Or be like, look at my bracelet.
Interview: You know, they're, these cues are the way of their ways of telling you that they're not ready to talk about this right now. Mm-Hmm. . And so believing their cues instead of pushing it is really kind of the best strategy to take. So we can talk about the perfect way to deliver information, but your kid could shut you up right away.
Interview: Mm-Hmm. . And that's just their way of saying like, not now. And you just acknowledge that and you say, I can tell this is really hard for you to talk about. At some point we're gonna have to talk about this. But we don't have to right now. So, you know, you listen to them and you, if you need to have that conversation soon, you can even say, I know this is really [00:19:00] hard for you.
Interview: I'm just going to tell you exactly what you need to know. And then we can go back to playing video games or we can go to whatever we were going to do. So really look at your whole child as you were kind of delivering this information. Um, secondly, I love group or family conversations whenever possible.
Interview: So families being together, um, two trusted adults being there if there's two partners, or maybe a grandparent can come or a neighbor that your child feels really comfortable with. And this just offers like literally that visual of there's people around me and I'm okay, and I'm safe, and I'm secure. And so, um, Also, it can be really emotional, right?
Interview: Delivering this information. And if you can come in and you yourself have some support, that can be really nice to, to really just have the people who you trust and love around you. Um, so the third thing I would say is that when it comes to delivering this specific information and we'll go through a specific NICU example is being as [00:20:00] concrete as you can.
Interview: So giving honest but simple explanations that are actually the truth. So, um, I think starting with what your, your, the sibling actually knows. So you've seen mommy's belly get bigger and bigger because baby brother or baby sister's inside. So immediately you're telling your child like, yeah, you know what's going on.
Interview: You know, baby brother or sister has been inside my belly. And then you can say, but baby is not growing like we had hoped. And so because of that, baby is going to have to sleep and spend their days at the hospital. So you're saying baby, we had hoped this was going to happen. This did not happen. And this is where baby is physically going to be.
Interview: So kids are really looking for like, Concrete. Well, like where is the baby? Um, right. Like where, where did they go? So you're telling me they're at another building. Okay. I can visualize that there's a crib there. Like you're starting to give like concrete examples. There's a special baby crib there. There are people [00:21:00] who their whole job is to take care of your baby brother and sister.
Interview: They're called babysitters. Doctors. They're called nurses. You know how we go to see Dr. Brown when, when you're sick, your baby brother has their own special doctor to take care of them. So now you're pulling on their experiences from their having their own doctor and taking care of them. Does that make sense?
Interview: Oh yeah. This is all so good. Oh my gosh. Oh, I hope it's helpful. Um, And so, um, we kind of talked about the helpers who are there because siblings I've, I've heard and heard from parents that they can be really upset about baby being alone because mom and dad aren't there. So, you know, we kind of hear the, the, the opposite that we want mom and dad home, but then it's like, wait, who's taking care of baby brother.
Interview: So, um, I, you know, We'll get to some ways to incorporate bonding, but if while you're having this discussion, you can take a picture of the doctor or the nurse with their smiling faces and their masks down. So you're [00:22:00] also providing a visual to where baby is and who is taking care of babies. Nurses and doctors love this.
Interview: They want to feel connected to your family. Um, and so this is a really simple way for you to do it. The other thing is in this conversation is always coming it back to, um, this is not your fault. You didn't do anything wrong. Mommy didn't do anything wrong to have this happen. Daddy didn't do anything wrong.
Interview: Sometimes these things just happen. And, um, We kind of move into the fourth step, which is where you become vulnerable with your child and you're not uncontrollably crying and you're not making them take care of you, but you are showing your own emotion that this is really hard for mommy. It makes me feel sad.
Interview: It makes me feel scared. Um, you may see that I'm crying sometimes and that, um, I may be more tired than normal. And so if I look at you and you're feeling sad and you're feeling scared about baby brother and you're feeling worried or you're feeling extra tired, we know that we both have those feelings and that they're normal.
Interview: [00:23:00] And what I do when I'm feeling sad is I like to have this baby blanket that I brought home from the hospital to hug. I like to hug you. I like to, um, take a walk around the neighborhood. I like to write down my feelings. If you're feeling sad and you're feeling worried, what are some things you can do to feel better about baby brother or sister?
Interview: Um, and so then they're coming up with their own coping plan of when I feel sad or I feel scared, I want to run to the sonogram picture, right? So I have something to do with that energy and that emotion. Um, And it can be as simple as like, I want to, you know, depending on the age of the child, like I want to hug a stuffy.
Interview: Um, I want to write them a letter, you know, kind of depending on the age of the older kiddo, you can really adapt it. But the more you can encourage them to think. Think about the way they want to cope with you the more likely they'll they'll be able to do it Yeah, so I hope that's helpful. So I kind of want to review because it was a lot So first we talk about assessing your [00:24:00] child right and knowing their development their personality and they're going to give you cues throughout this conversation Second get your support Your people that help you feel calm and loved and help your child feel calm and loved.
Interview: Third, when it comes to delivering the information, be really concrete, make sure they know it's not their fault. And fourth, talk about how you're feeling. Um, and then I, I do, I didn't write this down, but I do want to also just, Side note, especially for those toddlers and preschoolers that are in those very And even older kids egocentric point of view like how is my life going to be different because babies in the hospital Who's going to be picking me up from school?
Interview: Who's going to be doing that? So that's kind of the next conversation right is that you can really get down to the nitty gritty of these details But that's that may be coming up for them too. Like how does this affect me? Um, I see you're worried about baby brother, but like what's going on with me and am I still doing my routine and all that?
Interview: Yeah, right. Hmm. There's like 80, 000 gems in that. [00:25:00] I'm not a child, but even just hearing you talk about that, like if a parent were to explain it to me that way, I, I would just feel incredibly taken care of and just like very seen. And so I love that. I mean, I feel like these four points apply to so many different things.
Interview: Hmm. You know, like I'm like, oh, I'm gonna take that nugget to just like any life change that we have with our children. It's really that framework for difficult conversations and we use You know, child life specialists can use different frameworks. This is the one I feel really comfortable with. And, you know, when you're talking about death or bereavement or a move or a transition or a surgery or anything that's going to disrupt kind of their normal routine, this can be a really comfortable way to do it.
Interview: I don't know how you're, you should be a writer on Daniel Tiger's Neighborhood because I honestly had, I was like, this sounds like what Daniel Tiger's mom would say. Do you know there is a child, there was a child life specialist on a Daniel Tiger surgery episode. [00:26:00] So cool. Oh, yeah. We, we watched that one with my, my daughter.
Interview: Yes. We do. We do. I was like, whoop, whoop. Yeah. Represent. Um, and they didn't have their own song, but maybe we could write one later and send it to them in an audio form. So the, I think Ashley pointed out this well, but this seems like something that you can iterate on. Right. So if something else happens in the NICU or the stay get extended or the baby has a surgery or there's this.
Interview: information that you need to relay, you can kind of keep coming back to this and using that same common language. And, um, hopefully that would give comfort to the, your, your older children too. Yeah. Yeah. I like ending those conversations too, you know, depending on. The severity of it and how your child's reacting if your child starts to get pretty upset visibly and you know, you just you stop and you console and you love and you validate and um if you can take like a family walk after or do a family game or something that is [00:27:00] normal for your family and be like Not this unit hasn't changed like the world outside has changed But like the way we love you that you're safe hasn't changed and that can be really affirming Um Honestly, it makes me want to cry.
Interview: I know. It's so sweet. Well, isn't it cool? Isn't it that it's the way that, like you said, Ash, it's the way that we would want to be consoled and loved on in this time that's really hard and uncertain, too, so it's just an extension of that. It's so beautiful. We should all take naps now. When you said about the blanket, I was like, I want a blankie.
Interview: Yeah, right? It feels good. Well, and I have one question that kind of goes with that of, you know, when, when is that a conversation that a parent would have alone with their children and when would it be maybe helpful or beneficial to have a child life specialist be a part of that conversation? Or is that something that.
Interview: A child life specialist more prepares a parent for, or is it ever appropriate to have a child life specialist present [00:28:00] for that conversation? Yeah. Yeah. I, that's such a good question. Um, I, I would say brainstorm as much as you can with any support people there, whether it's the social worker or the child life specialist.
Interview: And um. You know, just have confidence in yourself that it's not, you know, and I was saying words, but what you guys really took away from what I said was the way it made you feel. And that's the message you want to send your kids. Like you're going to fumble, you're going to say things you didn't mean to, like I've done that before.
Interview: Um, but it's like, how, how are they coming back? How are they feeling? So if you think that extra support would be beneficial, absolutely ask for child life. We really recommend that this information comes from you and we want to give you the words to do it. But sometimes that just doesn't the way it's not how the events are happening.
Interview: And so if they can help you formulate the words and reinforce your concepts and do all that, I think it's absolutely wonderful. And you deserve that, that support in those times. Yeah. So unfortunately, you know, for these families, [00:29:00] um, parents, feel like, you know, after the initial kind of impact of all this, all those steps that happens, there's a birth, you know, maybe you're discharged ahead of your baby, baby is staying there, you go home, you have the conversations, you kind of are finding this new normal, whatever that looks like.
Interview: You, it is impossible to kind of be in two places at once. And that's, that's like the hardest thing for our NICU moms that have, um, kids at home. Um, and it just feels like, uh, a lose lose. Like you, when you're at the NICU, you feel like you're, uh, neglecting your kiddo at home. When you're at home, you feel like you're missing important things that are happening at the NICU.
Interview: You always kind of feel like you're running behind, How would you talk to a family who's navigating this? How would you help them address it? Yeah, I think validating that it is a lose lose and, um, they're not going through it alone, which I know is y'all's theme, um, [00:30:00] which is really important in these situations.
Interview: I, I think the sooner that you can establish a routine. of leaving. And what I mean by that is at the beginning, or you may find that it's easier to kind of sneak out when you need to go to the NICU because you don't have to hear your kid cry and you don't have to hear them get upset, which is incredibly upsetting to leave your child at home to go see your other child in the hospital.
Interview: If you can establish a routine that says, mommy is going to leave, daddy's going to leave to go visit baby in the hospital, and I really need your help. Okay. I need your help in picking out which book I'm going to read to your baby brother today. Can you help me find that book? And then I'm going to leave.
Interview: I'm going to go read the book and spend some time with baby brother and I will be back by this time. And if for some reason I'm not back by this time, I'm going to call grandma. I'm going to make sure I talk to you on the phone, you know, who or whoever is watching them and [00:31:00] explain why I'm not there. And when I'm coming home, so why it can be easier at the beginning to kind of sneak out and get out the door, what that can do for the kids at home is wondering, um, When you're coming back, why did you leave?
Interview: Did you go to see baby? Um, and just can start to develop a little bit of mistrust. And so the sooner you can establish this routine of I need your help, you've got a big job here. What book am I going to read? If you're not here, there's no books, you know, or which blanket should it be? Or just these small little things.
Interview: Another thing I've seen families do is say mom or dad always have keys around. Like, I want you to hold onto my keys. This is how you know, I'm coming back. Um, and so just, or maybe something that's really precious between the two of you. It's like, when you, when you're. Missing me when I am visiting brother or sister.
Interview: You have these, you know, I'm going to be coming back to you So just establishing that kind of stuff when you leave the NICU can be helpful [00:32:00] So obviously there is physical different distance between our kids at home and our kids in the NICU and sometimes that can be for long Periods of time sometimes that spans from a week.
Interview: Sometimes that looks like nearly a year or more Yeah, and so what are ways that families can? can establish bonds between their children and that sibling's bond even before they've had a chance to meet or spend a lot of time together. I love this question. And I want to talk about it in two parts because I think there's a place for advocating for her.
Interview: siblings to come visit the NICU. Even if your NICU says no, um, we can talk about some of those strategies and when it's appropriate for sure. Um, but I think as it's kind of like imagine when you were pregnant and you were getting baby's nursery ready and you didn't know baby yet, but you were Starting to create memories with them before they even got there.
Interview: So, you know, it's possible for a sibling at home to feel connected [00:33:00] to sibling in the NICU even though they've never met. So some of the things I really recommend doing is just like we talked about bringing a book to the hospital that sibling has picked out. Videotape, videotape. Like, what am I talking about?
Interview: 1993, um, record, just videotape, record yourself on your phone reading to baby the book that sibling has picked out. So automatically they know that the book that they have decided for baby brother or sister that day is being read aloud. The second thing is to do like a little video tour of the bay that you're in or the private room wherever you are and physically show sibling like what the room looks like.
Interview: This is mommy's chair. They have sinks here. What do you know? They've got soap just like us. Like all these little things that matter and make sense to kids. They want to see is happening where their baby brother or sister is. So like taking their context at home and going there and [00:34:00] you'll, I had a Parent in the nicu and we sent home a dinosaur stuffed animal.
Interview: And so baby, our big sibling was like, is Dr. Dinosaurs still there? So somehow like the dinosaur coming home. And then, so now we only talked about Dina, Dr. Dinosaur, and then the. The doctor would write a letter to sibling at home and sign it like Dr. Dinosaur. So like sibling was totally integrated into this whole NICU experience and staff loved that too because they very much love the family unit.
Interview: So I think any way that you can Connect those two worlds together. I love having, um, if they're old enough, the sibling draw a picture and then literally putting it on the isolate or putting it in the room so you can see baby and the picture together. Um, ask nurse for footprints and then, or handprints, take those home and put them next to baby brothers or siblings.
Interview: Sorry, my words are getting all messed up, but have sibling at [00:35:00] home on the same paper, put their hands next to them. Um, so just these little activities that don't take a lot, but are, can be incredibly meaningful. I also love name bracelets. So let the sibling wear baby's name on their wrist when they go to school, um, so that they feel connected or even like, I'm a big sister, those kinds of things that are like, this is their new role.
Interview: This is their, this is what they do. And, um, at home you can have them. Pick out things to help with the nursery and just all those little things and jobs that make kids feel really like they're a part of it. Um, the second part that I do want parents to feel comfortable for is advocating for siblings to come in and meet.
Interview: And I think it's really important to be cautious about the timing for that. I think right at the beginning when you're recovering from delivery, um, things may be pretty critical. Um, and at time unstable, it's probably not the best. time for sibling to come in. [00:36:00] Um, I think once you feel settled, once you feel secure, once sibling has seen pictures of the NICU, maybe you've done a little video tour, you're reading their cues, they're asking to come in, they're asking to come see is then the right time to ask either the child life specialist to set something up or to, um, ask, uh, the doctors or get approval for sibling to come in, there's usually an age limit.
Interview: Um, We practice scrubbing our hands before we go into the NICU, talk about safety, um, and then really kind of limit the time there. So those NICU visits usually should be anywhere from like five to 15 minutes. You're going to find that the, You know, depending on the age, the older the kiddo may be able to spend longer time there, but sometimes you get there and it's really overwhelming and you feel really awkward and you're ready to go.
Interview: Um, so don't expect that it's going to be like an hour long visit. I think kind of prep yourself for that five to [00:37:00] 15 minute range. And then. Also, if you want to give them something to do while they're there. So when we go and visit baby brother, um, your job is going to be to help me pick out the blanket that's going to go on them next, and then let's draw a picture that we can leave here.
Interview: Because sometimes, you know, you think it's going to be this magical moment. It's almost like when you're holding baby for the first time, we've talked about that, right? Like. It's not everything you hope it's going to be. Sibling visits can be clunky and sibling visits can be overwhelming for everybody.
Interview: And this isn't what you pictured the first time you thought they were going to meet. So just kind of prepare your heart and your child's heart for that, uh, situation. I think that makes so much sense too. Cause they, in my mind, you know, Um, the older kids, but first of all, you see all like the medical equipment and the people and they're wearing masks and stuff and that freaks you out as an adult and you understand the dynamics of what a hospital is, but for little minds to really take it all in.
Interview: It's a lot. So I like the idea too of doing the [00:38:00] tour and talking a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. Trying to practice that, you know, what is the most concrete, straightforward and honest way to describe what this machine does? You know what I mean? Yes. That's really hard, but even just practicing it or recording it can be really helpful, um, ahead of time too, because it's all, it's overstimulating for grownups as well as kids.
Interview: Yeah. And if there's a long walk to get to baby's bay or baby's room, um, I would. You know, sometimes we even go through and pull curtains and make sure that, uh, there's privacy for the family, but also the child is not looking all around them. So sometimes I'll say, let's count the squares on the floor as we're going by.
Interview: Right. So we have them focused on a job and somewhat protecting them from what's around them. And just being aware of that exact thing. Martha, I'm glad you brought that up. That makes sense. In an instance where maybe a sibling is visiting their NICU sibling and maybe like a DSAT happens or a brady, [00:39:00] um, and alarms go off or a medical professional rushes into the room.
Interview: You know, what are ways that you can process that with your child so that. They don't, you know, think that it was their fault that they were there or that kind of thing. Um, is it kind of the same four step method that you mentioned? Or is there a different way that you approach that in helping them understand?
Interview: Yeah, I think that's a great question and you know, it could definitely happen. Like that's, that's what happens in the NICU is things happen that you don't plan for. Um, so I think in that preparation for sibling visiting, listening to YouTube sounds of NICU equipment and those bells and those alarms and talking about how people walk fast.
Interview: And if something does happen while sibling is there, it's just the best you can remain calm and then really process it later. Um, and if your child doesn't bring it up, you can always say, remember when those beeps went off? I wonder what was happening or what did you think was happening and really get to know.
Interview: Get their input on what happened. [00:40:00] Sometimes we can be really, um, scared of what the child was thinking and who knows what was going on in their head at that time. So getting them to really verbalize like, I was scared or what alarms are you talking about? I was making it a bracelet and I had to leave, you know, so really let, let them, um, navigate that conversation.
Interview: But good question. Knowing that there's this intersection between NICU graduates and developmental delays and disability and medical complexity, um, that means that the NICU experience is, kind of, goes beyond just being, um, admitted to the hospital. So they're discharged. They come home. And so even those things that you talked about with your older child initially, like we're going to bring the baby home and the baby's going to meet the dogs and we're going to, you're going to get to hold it.
Interview: Maybe that's not what it's going to look like when the baby finally does come home and is discharged. Um, how can we [00:41:00] introduce our new babies into our family and reassure our children, our older children of all these changes? Yeah, such a good question, because I think a lot of babies do come home with oxygen.
Interview: Um, or do come home with some special braces, or do come home with a lot more therapy appointments. And, like, you're gone the next day already, didn't you just get home? Why does a baby have a doctor's appointment if they were just there? Um, and so, I think all of that. And gosh, it's so much to put on parents because right, you're getting discharged to bring your baby home.
Interview: But I, I would, I would go back to kind of that, that four step process of just being very concrete and saying baby needs extra help to breathe, or we've got an appointment tomorrow after we get home or just preparing as much as you can for what life is going to be like. And here's the other thing is that your older siblings, especially if there's only one, they don't know any different.
Interview: So, um, they don't know that siblings should come home and stay home and not have this equipment to them. It can feel really [00:42:00] normal, especially if you're talking about it. Um, you know, just make it part of your conversation, you know, bring it up often, you know, baby has oxygen there. We're going to see it when we get home, it's going to be really normal for them.
Interview: Um, and so just kind of addressing it in, in that, like, This is what we have to do right now. And life isn't always what we expect it's going to be. And, um, I hope that helps answer your question and doesn't diminish that it is different, but for the sibling, it may not all be that different. They don't, they've never had a sibling come home from the NICU before.
Interview: Yeah. Well, that makes sense. Um, it also kind of goes back to what you were saying about following your child's lead and asking questions about what did you notice about this or what are you, you know, asking for their observations because maybe that pulls out things from them that you weren't anticipating.
Interview: Children are Kids are They're little sponges, but also they pick up on things like, you know, remember when you eat that turkey sandwich three years ago, you know what I mean? Exactly. And kids are really fun. Like I've had some kids [00:43:00] leave the NICU with some specific braces and dad called it his football gear.
Interview: And so like, they loved that. They're big Cowboys fans. So it's like, yeah, he's already got his football gear on and he's just three months old, you know? And so, you know, get creative with the oxygen tank and is it oxygen tank corer? Is it a big pickle? I don't know. You know, you can just get really fun with, with what this could be and what it could represent to your family, rather than something that's scary, let it be something that's really helpful and really useful and really fun.
Interview: It's actually been cool. We have so many, um, Awesome members of our community who's will do things like, um, they have, they have dolls. So they like, uh, they see what it's like to section out, uh, the trach or, or, um, you know, do a feeding through a G tube, things like that. And so a lot of like pretend play with that.
Interview: And like, then they take all this pride. We have one dear friend of ours in particular, and it was really cool to see how her, um, daughter just picked [00:44:00] up on those things and started doing them and felt really, um, As involved and kind of committed to the family chore of, we're doing the feeding, you know, as, as our parents.
Interview: I love that. Yeah. I've also had kids like take those and like, um, traumatize the doll and like draw fireballs on them. So that also could happen just like as a heads up. Like sometimes I would like think I'm going to have this really meaningful intervention and the mom comes back. She's like, Can I tell you what happened?
Interview: And I was like, you know, just like, that's really normal too. I love that. Yes. Oh my gosh. So good. I do think too, we have a good friend who, uh, who put googly eyes all over her oxygen tank, which is pretty good too. Amazing. Yeah. Creepy. Cool. Yeah.
Interview: Well, and my mom is an elementary music teacher and, um, sometimes she'll tell me about the kids who just, who have a heart for kiddos who have disabilities or medical complexities and [00:45:00] just their compassion and empathy for, for those students. And so I can only imagine too that, you know, having these older siblings involved in their younger siblings cares or, you know, or medical needs are only going to make them more empathetic and compassionate adults and kids in school and different things too.
Interview: And so, um, I, I, I feel so encouraged thinking about just like empowering these kids to see um, kiddos who need that little bit of extra attention and then really, really, really Becoming just beautiful and empathetic adults, too. Yeah, as you were talking I was like, I wonder if those are siblings of kids who have been in the NICU or had had medical complexities the most compassionate and loving People.
Interview: Yep. For sure. Well, I know we're kind of getting to the final thoughts of this episode, but maybe, um, before we go to the encouraging last words of, uh, or encouraging last words, encouraging final notes of the episode, you know, are there any [00:46:00] additional children's books or resources that you would recommend for families as they, you know, continue to establish a bond between siblings?
Interview: Yeah, absolutely. So I have an Amazon list that I'm going to send to you with all of my favorite NICU books. Um, but one of my favorite children's books in general that is really great for NICU, for separation, um, Um, for even end of life or bereavement or death is a book called the invisible string and it's about the connection that you have from one heart to another heart that you can't see.
Interview: And I think it's just a great book and it comes even with like some practice materials if you want to buy that extra stuff. But I think that book, even for family who live far from military families, this idea of this invisible string between you and the people you love is really great. It's my favorite.
Interview: Oh, and then I also have a, um, NICU parent, uh, like preparation document for preparing a sibling to come visit the NICU and stay involved. And I'll send that to you [00:47:00] guys to be able to give out if you'd like. Oh, that's incredible. I imagine child life on call might be a great resource as well.
Interview: I love it. Well, um, you know, what would be some, you've given so many words of encouragement throughout this episode. I know there's going to be a million and one nuggets that families can take, but you know, what would be some of, you know, a lasting encouragement that you would leave with families that find themselves in this situation or potentially find themselves in this situation in the future?
Interview: That's such a good question. I think I hope that you take away from this conversation that you have the ability to make your other kids feel really safe even when you don't think you're doing a good job. And that by loving them and opening up to them and being honest with them, you have everything both of your kids need.
Interview: Um, And you might fumble through words and mess up [00:48:00] at times and need to sneak out, you know why the other siblings napping and it's not going to make or break the whole experience. But as long as you keep coming back to making your, your kids at home and your NICU baby feeling loved, you, you really can't go wrong.
Interview: So
Interview: good. Well, and this is a very important question. How can families connect with your services, um, especially, especially if maybe a child life specialist isn't available where they are or they don't feel comfortable with the one that they have? You know, what are some ways that families can connect with you and your team?
Interview: Yeah, so actually childlifeoncall. com slash parents. Um, we have a parenting kind of starter kit Which talks about how to give your kids medicine and all that that kind of fun stuff But you can also see virtual services there so you can meet and connect with a child life specialist and we're more than happy to To provide a consult and help walk you through or get you connected to one in [00:49:00] your area And also Instagram.
Interview: That's where I do my most stuff. How about you guys? Like that's, yeah, yeah, definitely. Yeah. Instagram and the podcast are the two. Yes, yes, absolutely. Oh, it's so wonderful. Honestly. Um, first of all, we all are having, um, winter storm brain, even though only one of us is, is one right now. I think, um, we are just always.
Interview: Your breath of fresh air, you're so light, but just you're filled with so much wisdom and um, the fact that you take time out of your, your busy, busy schedule to sit down and share this, these gems with our audience is incredible. So thank you for being you. Oh, well, thank you guys for having me. I love it.
Interview: Anytime you want or will have me, I will be here and I love NICU families. And so I'm just grateful that hopefully you can walk away with something today and know that you have a safety net in both Martha, Ashley, Child Life On Call, and we've got you. Yes, 100%. [00:50:00] Well, mamas, thank you for tuning in with us today.
Interview: We are so grateful for this community and we hope that you feel empowered and encouraged that you can do this and that your best is enough. Um, your love is enough. And even on the days when it feels like you're completely stretched thin and you can't do it, know that you already are and you're doing a really, really good job.
Interview: And so, um, Why am I crying? I am so emotional. I was just about to say, this feels like, this feels like self care right now. Oh man, but we love, um, we love your families. We are with you, um, in spirit, but also here, um, on our podcast and in our services. And so just know that you do not walk this journey alone.
Interview: There are resources like us and Child Life Call, on call, that literally exist. to support you and to make sure that you feel seen, heard, and validated. So uh, we'll be back next week with a wonderful mama story, but thank you so much for being a part of this community and we'll be back next [00:51:00] week. Thank you so much for listening to this week's episode of the Interview podcast.
Interview: If you loved this episode, we'd be so grateful for a review on any Any of the podcast platforms. And we'd love to continue connecting with you via our social media pages or a private Facebook group. And ultimately NICU mama, welcome to the sisterhood.
Ashley & Aisha: Thank you so much for listening to the Dear NICU Mama podcast. If you loved this episode, we'd be so grateful for a review. For more ways to connect with the Interview Sisterhood, check out the links in the episode description.
