S8 Ep 11 Transcription
S8 E11 | Kerri | NICU Mama Becomes NICU Nurse
Ashley & Aisha: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Dear NICU Mama Podcast. This podcast is a safe place to connect with other NICU moms by listening to interviews with trauma informed medical and maternal mental health experts, remarkable stories from the NICU, and intentional roundtable conversations. Our hope is that you feel like you're sitting across the table from another NICU sister and feel seen and validated in your experience.
Ashley & Aisha: No matter where you are on your healing journey, this podcast is here to remind you that you are not alone. Welcome to the Sisterhood.
Ashley: Welcome back, mamas. It's so good to be here. We have a really special episode, and I wish you guys could all see how
Ashley: beautiful Aisha
Aisha: thank you.
Ashley: She's wearing this cute denim jacket, these cute glasses.
Ashley: She's just adorable.
Ashley: I
Aisha: this on this morning as I was rushing out to do all the things. So thank you. You guys should see Ashley in her cute little, there is goodness, a [00:01:00] head, a baseball cap.
Ashley: today. It's covering the
Ashley: greasy hair, so
Aisha: You know, us mothers, we just got it. We're really good at masking. We're just like, let's throw on the jean jacket, the little cap, and we're cute.
Ashley: We're cute. We make it work. Absolutely. I love it. Well, Aisha, we have a really special episode today and you are actually the one that connected with this mama first. So would you do us the honor of introducing our
Ashley: very special guest today?
Aisha: would love to. I am very excited. So I'm at the, This Amazing Mama, um, at one of our girls night out. Um, and Girls Night Out is our support group, our peer support group that meets everyuh, last Wednesday of every month. And, We're doing our thing and all of a sudden this mom starts just speaking so much love and encouragement to the moms in the group and I was just blown away and just loved how much she [00:02:00] cared and was so gentle and, and, and being supportive to moms and just everything she had to say was just like, I was like, wow, who is more. And then getting to know a little bit more about her story. Um, I find out that she was also now, uh, practicing NICU nurse. And so, um, not only is this mom, a NICU mom and knows what it's like to have a baby in the NICU, but now she actually gets to, um. Work alongside the team that saved her daughter's NICU. So I just, you know, the story just kept getting better and better. And I really thought that it would be so great to get to know her more and her story and where she is today. And I thought it would just be a really awesome episode leading up to nurses week, which we all, all us NICU moms love. Have at least one NICU nurse that we just have adopted into our family and who we continue to [00:03:00] stay in contact with.
Aisha: And so I thought, what a better way to honor NICU nurses than to have, um, Kerrie with us today to share her story and journey. So Kerrie, thank you so, so much for being here today and willing to share your story and share hope. and encouragement to other moms. You already have been doing that so beautifully.
Aisha: And I just know that this, this episode is just going to be one more way that you, um, support and love on NICU moms. So thank you so much for being here today. Yeah.
Kerrie: for that wonderful, uh, uh, introduction. I'm really honored to be here. A little nervous,
Kerrie: so
Ashley: also rocking a really cool gaming headset right now. And I'm a little jealous.
Kerrie: Courtesy of one of the kids and all my dry shampoo covering underneath of it, you know. But, um, thank you. Thank you. I really am truly honored to be here to talk [00:04:00] today and, uh, to be a part of your group and the Girls Night Out and, uh, It's just been a great connection and a good couple of years, um, of being in your, in your social media group and being able to connect with other moms kind of globally.
Aisha: Absolutely. Well, you kind of touched on it already a little bit, but, um, do you want to maybe just start with like how you heard about Dear NICU mama and, um, maybe uh, if you uh, a little bit of your, of your story, and how, you became a NICU Yourself.
Kerrie: definitely. So, I have a three year old now. She's doing well. Three years ago, she came early at 25 weeks gestation. Um, I had ruptured membranes, um, I was Abrupted, had choreo, she was in distress, so urgency section, and that was the start [00:05:00] of the NICU journey. She spent 86 days in a NICU close to home, luckily, only about 25 minutes away. Prior to that, I had no knowledge of really NICU or her. How resilient these little kids were. I just knew, you know, some of the things that could occur. So it started out a little rocky. She had, I think, pretty a typical journey where she had the low SATs, low heart rates, and then that led to, you know, later difficult feedings and all those typical things that I know a lot of parents can be familiar with or understand.
Kerrie: But I think the hardest part, um, for me was the social isolation, you know, it was during COVID, not being able to have family support, just me and my husband were allowed to be in there with her, [00:06:00] and feeling like I really couldn't connect with anybody who understood what we were going through.
Kerrie: Um, and then that carried on even after discharge.
Kerrie: Fortunately, we had a good outcome and we were able to take her home. For After 86 days, but, um, the journey doesn't really
Kerrie: stop at the NICU. You
Kerrie: know, I think we all know that. For a lot of us, you know, there's a lot of care afterward. And, um, just feeling like I still couldn't find anybody that I could relate to, even talking to therapists and it just wasn't what I was really needing.
Kerrie: So I started looking on social media and found Dear NICU Mamas and I attended that first girls night out and it was just, uh, really, endearing, and, um, helpful and I'm really grateful to have found it,
Kerrie: you know, and to be a part of it still,
Aisha: And if I remember correctly, um, that night, um, [00:07:00] it was kind of your first time really opening up and sharing a little bit of your journey and all you had been through, um, and that takes a lot. Yeah. Yeah.
Kerrie: first time telling your story out loud, I think, is, uh, Like opens the
Kerrie: floodgates, you know, uh, but very therapeutic
Aisha: Yeah. Would you like to maybe, um, go into that a little bit? How that experience was for you and, and the importance of being able to articulate a lot of those feelings that were kind of just locked inside really up until that point.
Kerrie: Yeah, I think that you get so used to realizing what you've overcome and you kind of push, push down a
Kerrie: lot of those feelings,
Kerrie: um, because you're just fortunate to be
Kerrie: discharged and out of the NICU and grateful for, um, [00:08:00] the wins that you've experienced. that you don't really process, or at least I didn't, the real, um, the real trauma of it all, honestly.
Kerrie: So, when you start talking about it, and you allow yourself to talk to other people who have experienced similar things, it's very healing. Um, I had, you know, obviously spoken to my best friends, and even nurses that, um, You know, I ended up then working with it's still not the
Kerrie: same. It's still,
Kerrie: um, there's not an understanding of really what you go through until you meet people who've gone
Kerrie: through the same situation and can be empathetic to what you're, what you've gone through and what you're dealing with.
Kerrie: And, um, then you just find this community of resources too, you know, there's so much hope in the little things that you worry about for your individual child and understanding and meeting other. Moms who are like,
Kerrie: yeah, I feel the same way, [00:09:00] or my kid's going through
Kerrie: this, or this is a resource that we found, or just that connection, the two pieces of it, the, the, the mental health help, um, of, and camaraderie, and understanding, um, that you get when you're a part of this group, and then, um, just the
Kerrie: resources, too, of just
Kerrie: saying, oh, I didn't even think to do
Kerrie: that, or try that, or,
Kerrie: Yeah, my
Ashley: Yeah.
Kerrie: sleep or doesn't eat or you know,
Kerrie: those commonalities that we all kind of share, um, makes you feel a little less alone, you know, in the
Kerrie: journey.
Ashley: Well, and you bring up a really important. conversation about how oftentimes when you're in the NICU, you're just kind of in that flight or flight survival mode. Your priority is your baby. Um, and then you come home and all of a sudden, you know, that baby's okay, but sometimes your body doesn't know that yet.
Ashley: And so you're still kind of operating in that fight or flight. And then we really begin to what we sometimes call like the next big [00:10:00] chapter of the NICU journey, which is the really the processing of all of Everything that we just endured, for you those 86 days. And so I know you briefly mentioned like talking with a counselor.
Ashley: Was that something that you knew was a priority for you? Like you were like, yep, this is something that I want to actively seek out. And how was it for you to find a provider? Because I think that's something that can be difficult for moms is finding a provider that They really click with, and that also just understands the, the trauma of the NICU and all that goes into it.
Ashley: How was your experience with that?
Kerrie: Um, honestly it was a little rough, but I've used that now, uh, my current
Kerrie: practice as a NICU mom to kind of help other people. And what I mean by that is, um, in my NICU journey. I had, even nurses
Kerrie: that now I work with, um, that I know are wonderful people. I don't think that there's a
Kerrie: [00:11:00] level of understanding of how some
Kerrie: people struggle, uh, internally and externally.
Kerrie: Um, and while a lot of nurses understand, like, this is very common for these babies to go through these things, it's not
Kerrie: common to us, even
Kerrie: as a nurse. To understand what is happening with our babies, and there's not really a lot of, um, a lot of calm that we feel when we're in there, right? So, not only do you have sometimes medical professionals telling you, like, everything's fine, everything's fine, but then family and friends who don't really
Kerrie: know what to say are telling
Kerrie: you that too. So for me, I really tried to, tried and not very successfully
Kerrie: keep my feelings in check and and, and inside and wasn't processing anything.
Kerrie: Um, and then what would happen of course is that I would just
Kerrie: kind of explode, honestly, and that my coworkers can tell you that
Kerrie: I [00:12:00] was not a very good parent, which is kind of a shocker to people
Kerrie: who maybe know me
Kerrie: because I tend to have more of a, um, like a, calmer, I
Kerrie: guess, personality and understanding and, you know, but, um, in the NICU, I was not very kind. I had a hard time, um, not having
Kerrie: control. I had a hard time just trusting,
Kerrie: uh, strangers caring for my baby. So, I think I just put off my own needs of
Kerrie: mental help, therapy you know, and, um, then after The NICU, I did know like this isn't, I'm not processing this well. My husband was helpful in explaining that
Kerrie: to me also. Um, and I did find somebody, uh, it wasn't a
Kerrie: good fit and
Kerrie: I wasn't feeling like I was getting the, the help that I really needed. And then ended up finding a really
Kerrie: wonderful woman [00:13:00] on telehealth, thankfully through an app, um, that just kind of was a game changer. I think that coupled with this, uh, social
Kerrie: media group was, um, what actually brought me through.
Kerrie: But, you know, as NICU moms, we're at an increased risk for postpartum depression, anxiety, family, um, issues, you know, marriage problems. Just there's so much research to that, that we really need to be, um, helped along the way. Bye. Hospital staff, you know, by our friends, by our family saying like, it's okay to, to try to find
Kerrie: somebody to talk to. And it's not something until very recently, there's been this stigma around mental health that
Kerrie: we don't even talk about it. But now,
Kerrie: I think we're all
Aisha: hmm.
Kerrie: that. And, um, promoting, you know, getting help and
Kerrie: getting mental health help, so.
Aisha: I think you brought [00:14:00] up a couple things, but, um, some that stood out to me that I think are, are worth, like, kind of highlighting is just the fact that, like, once you're home, um, there's this, like, pressure to feel like everything should be okay now.
Aisha: Like, the worst is over. We should be happy. We should be grateful and not have all these negative emotions that oftentimes kind of flood in, um, once you are home and out of like the intense, um, you know, like high risk, everything is alert, you know, and for me, it was very similar, um, until I was able to come home.
Aisha: And when I was home, I was just grateful. Literally crying all day, every day and asking myself, what is wrong with me? Why can't I be happy that we're home and that we're, we're doing okay. Um, it wasn't until like, I took the same steps of like, I actually think [00:15:00] that I need to see someone because I don't think that I'm okay.
Aisha: And I think that I need to take care of myself. Um, that was hard to do too, because of this stigma and this outward, pressure of like, you should be okay now. Everything is better. Um, so I think that that was something that you brought up that is, um, important to mention is that if you are home right now and you are feeling all of these negative emotions, um, that that's, That's normal.
Aisha: And, and quite frankly, to be expected to, because what you did go through is so intense and, um, it, you are worthy of taking the time to heal and it's okay. If that requires extra support from a medical professional, a therapist, or, you know, even peer support groups like that, that is okay. And so I love that you kind of opened that up and mentioned that because.
Kerrie: I think, um, it's not [00:16:00] uncommon for moms to feel a little bit like, am I broken? That I'm feeling this way. Oh yeah, broken is the word. I think that there's probably a lot of us that can relate to that. That's exactly how you feel. Even the most, you know, self
Kerrie: proclaimed put together person, um, then a NICU baby comes and it's just, it completely changes your life. I think the, um, that trauma and then I think after bringing home my daughter Katie, This guilt set in that I, I wasn't expecting, um, but I didn't even realize was a commonality until joining this group either.
Kerrie: Like, what did I do to cause
Kerrie: this? What could I have done differently? Should I have been on bed rest
Kerrie: longer? Should I, you know, all these things. And that just
Kerrie: starts to flood in with just the whole traumatic, you know, uh, journey itself. So. Being able to work through that, it's really, you just have to work through it to get to the other side, you [00:17:00] know.
Kerrie: And it's been, it's a long, long
Kerrie: journey for sure.
Ashley: Well, and I think too, sometimes it comes with this level of acceptance that we will never be the same. And that can be a lot to grapple with because who we were prior to our NICU experience and who we are after are, we're completely reborn after that experience. And right away, it may seem like for all the wrong reasons, right?
Ashley: We're like, Why do I feel so guilty? Why am I sad all the time? Why? You know, because those are the kind of those first initial feelings. And then after we forged through that fire, we realized like, wow, I also have this like incredible resilience and this like new compassion for life.
Ashley: But there also comes this grieving period of like, I am no longer who I was. And it takes time to really re figure out who you are now. And like you said, with those resources, it becomes possible. But there's like this whole identity shift of who I were prior to my trauma, who I am today and how I kind of rediscover who I am.
Ashley: And so that was one question that [00:18:00] Aisha had kind of wrote about in here was just a little bit about who you were prior and after, you know, how did you find that you changed both for maybe some more difficult reasons? And also, you know, how did your NICU experience make you a better person, a better mom?
Ashley: You know, how do you see the world differently, maybe than you did prior to NICU experience?
Kerrie: Yeah, so there's a quote that I actually printed out at some point in my
Kerrie: hazy journey now
Kerrie: looking back. And I think it's like April Cabral, but it says, um, strength is what we gain from the madness we survive. And I
Kerrie: remember just clinging to that, like, I need strength. I need strength. You know, I started out, um, before Katie. My life was orderly and perfect, you know, seemingly. My older kids were pretty self sufficient. My job was, you know, I was a diligent nurse leader, director of an adult unit in [00:19:00] a hospital. Very structured, um, very career focused. I was in a master's program to go on to be a CNO or something. Uh, and then Katie came and my life and my goals and the things that were important to me completely changed. Um, after Katie, there's this sense of, you know, you recall wishing for ordinary days when you're in
Kerrie: the NICU.
Kerrie: I just wanted a day where something bad didn't happen or just, you know, not even the good because sometimes you'd have these good days in a row and then you'd have this setback and it felt like you were just reliving all
Kerrie: the pain all over again.
Kerrie: So
Kerrie: I
Ashley: Yeah. Yeah.
Kerrie: So now when I have an ordinary
Kerrie: day with my family,
Kerrie: it's the best day
Kerrie: ever, you know. It definitely opened my eyes to empathy. I had been a nurse for [00:20:00] 15 years before that and had really started to move away from the bedside and away from what originally drew me to the field
Kerrie: anyway, which
Kerrie: is just that compassion and wanting to take care of other humans. Um, and now it's like, I found that again. I quit my job, gave all that up, everything that every ladder, your ring that I'd climbed. And went back to the
Kerrie: bedside. And
Kerrie: now I really enjoy not only taking care of these little ones, but really focusing on the
Kerrie: parents. I love being able to, I don't always share my story with them, you know. But I love to be able to just say,
Kerrie: I'm here.
Kerrie: what do you need, how can I
Kerrie: help you? you? know,
Kerrie: and just provide empathy. and allow them a safe place to talk about it because everybody experiences this differently. You know, some people are very, very strong, uh, mentally and they will smile through it [00:21:00] and some people break down
Kerrie: every second and
Kerrie: both of those ways are fine.
Kerrie: You know, however you can get through it is how you get through it and but just being able to really provide that compassion and empathy and get back to the core of why I became a nurse has been. Kind of
Kerrie: the little gift that I got out of all of this, you
Kerrie: know, and a piece
Kerrie: of meaning that it
Kerrie: took me a while to figure out, you know, why this had happened, or now I can kind of lean on that, like there was a, there was a little meaning here, and a lesson for
Kerrie: me, and something that I've used as a tool to grow, and it's changed me, um, as a mom, as a, as a friend, and definitely as a nurse.
Kerrie: Now I'm back in school for my master's, but I want to you know, leave, uh, graduate and be a nurse practitioner that I can focus on maternal health, um, and then developmental outcomes for these kids when they leave the NICU. I got so sad getting, I'm getting
Ashley: You're right.
Kerrie: attached to them
Kerrie: for so long and
Kerrie: then [00:22:00] sending them
Kerrie: home with their parents
Kerrie: and not seeing them again.
Kerrie: So now I'm like, you know, I really. We would like to
Kerrie: see them after the NICU and in those really
Ashley: Mm hmm.
Kerrie: and help these families find the support that they need developmentally to give these kids the best outcomes possible. After everything they've been through, you
Kerrie: know, they really
Kerrie: need those advocates who will be like, Oh,
Kerrie: there's this resource or, Oh, there's this new study and let's try this with your son or daughter or, you know,
Kerrie: going forward.
Kerrie: So fundamentally changed for sure.
Aisha: That's amazing. Well, and something that I remember you also mentioning, um, during one of the girls night out is, um, you were talking about, um, it was so beautiful. You're talking about how. As NICU moms. It's so important for us to remember that we know our child best and to listen to our instinct and our [00:23:00] intuition.
Aisha: Um, and so I wonder if, um, you can kind of talk a little bit about that. Um, In, in two perspectives, one, while you were in the NICU, did you feel empowered to kind of speak up and have kind of, in a sense, authority over, like, the care of your baby, of Kate? Um, and then how do you now, as a nurse, kind of empower moms in the NICU to, to remember their voice in, in all of it?
Aisha: Because it can feel a little bit, um, like we don't have, um, like you said, that control or that say, because. We're not medical professionals. We don't know. Um, but you, you just said it so beautifully in Girls Night Out I remember there were a couple of NICU moms that were currently in the NICU during that session and, and you were so kind in telling them, Listen to that voice inside of you because you know, um, and even after the NICU, when we're home, um, and we're going through all the [00:24:00] developmental, um, hurdles that we have to kind of go through, um, that that voice should be the loudest
Kerrie: Yeah, I like 100 percent agree. Um, we have these bonds with our kids. And just real quick, talking about bonds, um, just from my personal experience, the bond that I had with my first two daughters and then the bond that I had with my NICU baby were very different. You know, we're in a different environment. And for some people, and for anybody who listens to this that's struggling to bond, I just want to touch on that. That's so normal. Oxytocin levels influence that there's there's just all this research about that But that bond happens and it comes and it's okay that it doesn't feel like your other babies the bonds with them So I just wanted to say that real quick But there is this deep internal bond that we have these with these kids whether we realize it or not That drives our intuition and I absolutely believe that parents [00:25:00] know Especially mothers we know We can sense when something's not right. We, we know when our kids are responding to treatments in certain ways. We're the ones there, they're best advocate, um, and we're able to be their voice. So, never feel like you can't, um, open up about that. In NICU, I did, uh, voice concerns. Not in a very productive way, admittedly. Um, I was very ruled by emotions and reactions. So, I was, um, Not one of the, uh, easier parents to get along with, I think, which my coworkers and I all laugh about now because they're just like, Oh my goodness, you remember when you did this? And I'm like, Oh yeah, sorry. But, um, they still allowed me that opportunity, which was the incredible part of the end of this is that [00:26:00] I was able to go and work side by side with them.
Kerrie: And they were so forgiving and understanding of my situation and just. What I, what I was going through that they didn't just write me off as some, crazy mom who
Kerrie: just, you know, and they gave me the chance to, to see, you know, how, how I could work with them. But find the person in the NICU, whether it's a neonatologist or a physical therapist or occupational or a tech somebody that you can feel comfortable with and you feel like will listen to you. And share how you're feeling, um, like you're not the primary caregiver or that people aren't listening to you or, because I can guarantee you now that I'm on the other side as the NICU nurse, a lot of times we don't realize that parents are struggling. We don't realize that you want to be more involved or that you're [00:27:00] too afraid to get involved or there's cultural barriers or language barriers or all of these things. Just, we have to be able to communicate with one another and you just find who you're comfortable with talking about these things
Kerrie: with and then that way that person can be an advocate for you and, you know, figure out a way to support you. kind of change that situation in the NICU for you where you feel like you're more involved in, um, in the care of your baby.
Kerrie: But nurses are, are the number one trusted profession
Kerrie: for a reason. Like we
Kerrie: get into this, most of us, because we want to be that advocate for you, um, even when it doesn't feel like it. And I do know from personal experience there was plenty of times when it certainly didn't feel like I had an advocate. Um, but now I can see how I just felt really isolated and the reasons why I felt like that. And going back, [00:28:00] I wish I would've
Kerrie: communicated more,
Kerrie: um, about the struggles I was actually having. You get so focused on the care of your child, you don't say, I'm struggling with
Kerrie: being a mom today. I'm struggling. And I need to be able to just
Ashley: Mm-Hmm.
Kerrie: change or I need you to talk to me more and explain to me more what is going on with, you know, this breathing machine or any of those little things that you need. Whatever it is, just don't be afraid to communicate and find one, if you can find one person in that setting that you really feel comfortable with and trust, just tell them and they can be your advocate to the rest of the staff
Ashley: So not to put you on the spot then. 'cause one thing I sometimes like to do on the podcast is like kind of role play a little bit. So let's say that. You're a mom and you're feeling some of those feelings of, I'm not feeling like I'm the parent. I feel like I'm just the, you know, I'm just watching my child get taken care of. And let's say that I'm like the trusted medical professional, whether [00:29:00] that's the NP or the nurse or even a social worker, how would you recommend, like, you know, having that conversation? What would you say? And maybe how would you, um, initiate that conversation to really kind of regain some of that, those motherhood roles that you're really craving.
Ashley: Mm
Kerrie: Yeah, so first just try to take a deep breath and then in very clear, plain language just
Kerrie: say how you're feeling.
Kerrie: Um, I think that it's really appealing to, uh, women nurses when you just explain how you're feeling. I, um, can remember an instance I came in and I was scrubbing in and I could see a nurse was already changing my daughter's diaper. And it was during one of those times where, you know, care was
Ashley: Mm hmm.
Kerrie: shift. And they were still on the, you know, uh, where they were very little. So you try not to go in and, um, disrupt them while they're trying to rest and grow. So I was really upset that she had started [00:30:00] without me. And I Did not use the tactic that I'm trying to talk about now, where I just started like yelling, because I had just left two crying children at home who couldn't understand why I couldn't put them to bed again, um, because I had to go see a sister that they had never met or didn't understand why she couldn't come home.
Kerrie: All those things. So if I had just maybe said, Oh, you know, I'm really struggling, and I really need to feel like I'm, um, my daughter's. Mother and primary care provider, what can we do? Uh, luckily this nurse, even with me yelling at her, literally yelling and swearing at her, um, just was so gracious and said, you know what, I'm really sorry, I'm going to make a sign for the front of the bed that says mom likes to be involved in all cares activities, all diaper changes, all feedings.
Kerrie: So on and so forth. Uh, she showed me so much grace. I mean, that I think was probably the [00:31:00] moment when I realized I need to come and work here
Kerrie: because these women are phenomenal. Women and men, we have male nurses too, obviously it's staff. I'm sorry. I don't want to be exclusive, but, um, just,
Kerrie: just like plain language, you know, just, you know, human being to human being, if we, if we could just try to communicate in that way, then this staff
Kerrie: will be receptive. You know, um, and there's different personality types. You know, some people value the personality types that are like, Oh, everything's going to be
Kerrie: fine. They want to hear that. And some people want to hear
Ashley: Mm hmm.
Kerrie: really, you know, and so you, you find your person. That's what I was saying, uh, across the NICU, whether, whatever their role is in
Kerrie: that, um, environment, you just find who you're comfortable with and talk to them. As clear and as plainly as you can, and I, I know that, you know, things will be easier and, and
Kerrie: [00:32:00] staff will be helpful.
Ashley: Well, and I just love how much Compassion you
Ashley: have for yourself when you were in the NICU, because I think we don't really talk about this very often, Aisha. Maybe that's another podcast episode of, you know, we can almost feel like shame and embarrassment. Like, Oh my gosh, I yelled at that nurse. I cannot, I can never tell anybody because they will all judge me and think I'm crazy.
Ashley: And, but when you're in that place, you are not, I mean, you are
Ashley: just on all cylinders. You are like in that fight or flight. Like it makes complete sense why we would. Yell at a
Ashley: nurse occasionally, or,
Ashley: you know, like have some of those outbursts, but I think what you're doing here is you're normalizing that and eradicating a lot of shame
Ashley: that some of us feel because we all want to be the nurse's favorite
Ashley: mom.
Ashley: Right?
Ashley: Like, maybe that's just a people pleaser in me, but I want them to think like, wow, Ashley's the chillest mom I've ever dealt with. But the reality is, is like, We can't always be chill when our baby's fighting for their lives, and it's
Kerrie: The, the NICU is kind of Yeah, [00:33:00] the NICU is a
Kerrie: place for tears. It's a place for anger and, and we are trained to help
Kerrie: you work through some of those
Kerrie: things. And if we are not
Kerrie: able to, to the extent that like I needed help, then we can help
Kerrie: refer you to other
Kerrie: services. But I tried to hold all that in and
Kerrie: not explain it,
Kerrie: um, to, to staff what I was really going through.
Kerrie: So resources
Kerrie: weren't made available to me. So
Kerrie: you have to be, I mean, listen, we vet our kids. Daycares. Think about how much thought we put into who we're going to leave our, our, our
Kerrie: well children with to expect that we're not going to have some sort
Kerrie: of emotion, negative emotion, when we're like, oh,
Kerrie: here's stranger. Here's my sick child who's trying to
Kerrie: survive life right now. I'm sure you're going to do a good job. I can't expect that parents
Kerrie: are going to trust me.
Kerrie: It takes a lot for me to sit down with these parents, uh, caregivers, and, and get them [00:34:00] to trust me and establish that so that they, and that's the goal, right, so that they can actually go home and, and have a good night's sleep knowing that their baby's, you know, taken care of by a facility and a
Kerrie: team of people
Kerrie: who are gonna do, do good for their child.
Kerrie: So, We gotta give
Kerrie: ourselves a little bit of grace
Kerrie: there for how
Kerrie: we react in situations like that where we have
Kerrie: no control, you
Kerrie: know.
Aisha: Well, and I love too, how you, um, are humanizing the nurses as well, because I think sometimes it can be, we can be so like focused on one thing that we forget that our nurses are people who also have their own issues that they might be going through.
Aisha: And I think that it's just, um, so important to, to remember that, that, that, you know, they're, they're, taking care of our babies and they're doing their job, um, but they're also people and they also deserve compassion from us. And, [00:35:00] and that's not always easy. Um, of course, because we are in a heightened state, but to just have that in the back of our minds too, of like, I don't know what My nurse has been going through,
Aisha: And, um, so I just, I love that too, because, um, I don't think that that's, um, something that. is talked about often is how, you know, our nurses are, are people too and deserve, um, some grace and compassion.
Aisha:
Kerrie: yeah. I had a doctor one time, uh, when I was a very new nurse, I remember. in a code, uh, tell me we are human saving humans. And that's not something that's, that's stuck with me forever. But to just kind of touch on what you're saying, Asha, I really appreciate that because just for some perspective, there's two things that I tell, uh, parents, um, in the NICU.
Kerrie: And one is whether your baby is in the NICU for one day or 400 days, that fear over your child is the same. [00:36:00] So you're valid, your feelings are valid, whether your baby is a 38 week baby with a low blood sugar or a 400 gram 22
Kerrie: week old gestation preemie. That fear that we all experience is the same. So your care is equally important, but I will say that there are times when, you know, I've held a child in my, the palm of my hand. and had to help a grieving mother who lost multiple kids in a day and then turn around and, and help a mom struggling and crying because she thought her kid was going home after all this time and then wouldn't, you know, the baby wouldn't
Kerrie: feed or wouldn't, you know, finish a bottle or had a brady or, and, and you've got to kind of look at the nurse
Kerrie: too with empathy and understand that
Kerrie: we
Kerrie: get dysregulated also. And that's a lot of trauma for us [00:37:00] too, to lose kids, um, or to sit side by side with a grieving mother and not have it also affect us. We, We
Ashley: Mm hmm. Yeah.
Kerrie: want to lose that part of being a human being. Um, so sometimes we carry that too and we're definitely not perfect. Um, but that communication piece is always what's
Kerrie: going to save us, right?
Kerrie: Like if
Kerrie: we can just Humanize it and talk more about it and talk with each other. Not be afraid to communicate. You do not
Kerrie: have to be perfect nurse, I mean perfect patient in the,
Kerrie: in the NICU for
Kerrie: sure. The perfect mom. We definitely appreciate the nice moms. But I, I almost, uh, I definitely am, I think kind of notorious in my place of work for being the, the difficult parent nurse, um,
Ashley: You understand
Kerrie: empathize more with them and Yeah.
Kerrie: and I'm almost drawn to them because I have this, like, sense of urgency to, like, pair them with [00:38:00]
Kerrie: resources and, and, you know, try to provide them a little
Kerrie: strength and that stuff. But anyway, thanks for mentioning that about how we're not perfect because we
Kerrie: certainly are not.
Ashley: I'm sure too, as a nurse, you're always told like, you guys are
Ashley: angels and you're like, yeah, but I also like, I'm not perfect and
Ashley: mess
Ashley: up, you
Kerrie: we're not.
Kerrie: Yeah,
Ashley: and one thing I want to make sure to touch on before. We get to, um, close to the end here is that you have this unique position of being a NICU parent and a NICU nurse, and I can only imagine that going back to the NICU, um, to the same NICU, right, that your daughter was cared for would be incredibly triggering, um, and you know, come with its own set of things to process.
Ashley: And I think you can speak to a demographic in the NICU that we have a lot of, where it's NICU mom turned NICU nurse or NICU nurse turned NICU mom and how you hold both of those worlds and how you, [00:39:00] you know, really process it. And now you're able to talk about it from this like beautiful, kind of more evolved sense of like, I'm able to give back, but I'm sure right away it came with its own challenges of Holy cow.
Ashley: This is like very similar to my daughter's experience. I need a minute in the pumping room to just come down from this. So I'd love
Ashley: to know your experience and also your encouragement for other NICU nurse NICU moms.
Kerrie: It definitely was that whole, what was I thinking, uh, that for,
Kerrie: for a while. Luckily, I have, I work with, I, I really truly believe the best team of nurses on the planet. Um, I can remember the first time I had to go back as a NICU nurse to the OR where my daughter was born. And of course, it was with a
Kerrie: 25 weeker,
Kerrie: same as mine, a little girl.
Kerrie: Um, and, uh, Luckily for me, there is another, there's another nurse who works in the NICU who also 18 years [00:40:00] ago
Kerrie: had a
Aisha: Oh my gosh.
Kerrie: And so I already started to well up and she's like,
Kerrie: I'll go with you. I'll go with you. So she goes back there with me. And of course I'm like trying to hold it together. I have to leave after delivery to cry. But you, you just get to see These great outcomes, more often times than not, that you just feel empowered to just keep going.
Kerrie: And slowly, you know, you kind of become, I don't want to say numb to it, but
Kerrie: stronger to it.
Kerrie: You figure out how, you know, not to let it completely just
Kerrie: open that wound, but more like, kind of, I don't know, inspire you to keep
Kerrie: doing what you're doing,
Kerrie: knowing that there's a purpose. And working, working through that. But communication
Kerrie: again goes back to that. Just
Kerrie: being able to talk to, uh, the, the employees, the co workers that I have and say, Oh, this is really, uh,
Kerrie: [00:41:00] hurting today. I need a minute. You know, and having them understand has been, made all the difference. Now it's, it's, uh, there's sometimes that, you know, walking in to that facility.
Kerrie: I'm like, okay, for whatever reason,
Kerrie: I'm feeling this again. But You know,
Kerrie: you just keep, keep pushing through and
Kerrie: see the good in the in the outcomes when these moms reach out to you
Ashley: Yeah.
Kerrie: or they leave you little cards that say how much they appreciate
Kerrie: you. There's nothing more,
Kerrie: there's nothing more important than that.
Kerrie: I
Kerrie: mean, it's just I have the best job in the
Kerrie: world. I
Kerrie: really
Ashley: love that you mentioned like, I feel like as NICU moms you just forever have like a spidey sense of how another NICU mom is doing and I love that the 18
Ashley: year past veteran NICU mom could
Ashley: know like
Ashley: I'm going to come with you. You know what I
Kerrie: Oh, I get chills thinking about that. There was a woman. Yeah. in the NICU there was a woman who, uh, I [00:42:00] must have been, I was probably crying at my daughter's bedside because that's what I did, I think, most of the time. But she was on her way out and she like passed her little phone number on a piece of paper on the bedside table and didn't say anything and left.
Kerrie: And I was just like, oh my
Kerrie: gosh, we're still
Kerrie: friends to this day. You know, our kids were little NICU neighbors, but. Yeah, having, having co workers or even NICU neighbors, you know, if you're in
Kerrie: an open pod like we are, like,
Kerrie: to, to understand what you're going through and just kind of say,
Kerrie: hey, I'm here, what can we do to help, you know, but, Yeah.
Kerrie: that nurse, she's been, I think we're just gonna be
Kerrie: friends forever, you know, just,
Kerrie: yeah,
Aisha: Oh my gosh.
Kerrie: for sure.
Aisha: Well, I love that and I love, like, I feel like the two themes of this conversation have been just like. A self acceptance and like acceptance of where we are, wherever that is on the spectrum. You know, one day we can be super hopeful and [00:43:00] happy and we can conquer the world. And other days we might be very disheartened and defeated and feeling low on the ground.
Aisha: And, and I think the important thing is to, Honor that, that feeling, acknowledge it. I think acknowledging it is probably the most important is just, I acknowledge that right now I'm feeling X, Y, or Z. And then really that's how we then get to move through those feelings. Because as we know, all feelings are temporary and.
Aisha: And they will come and go. And so just the acknowledgement to like, say, Hey, I see you, I notice you. And let's get through this together. And, and so I think that was, that's a very beautiful, um, um, theme that I've been noticing and then also the community and the, the communication and the. Being, um, open to not only receive from others, but [00:44:00] give from our experiences.
Aisha: I think that those are two, like they go hand in hand and are, are so like interwoven into this conversation. Um, but yeah, I don't know, Ashley, if you have any other questions that you wanted to ask, um, before closing.
Ashley: I think, um, we've already
Ashley: done such a beautiful.
Ashley: job
Ashley: of just sprinkling hope throughout the whole episode. So I feel like our
Ashley: hope question,
Ashley: you've already answered in a lot of ways, but, um, You know, maybe as a close, how would you encourage the moms who are in a similar place maybe to where you were before you reached out for that peer support?
Ashley: Um, maybe they're feeling incredibly isolated and they just feel like, I don't know anybody who's gone through this. I'm so alone. You know, how would you gently nudge them to maybe seek out some of those peer support options in a place of pain?
Kerrie: [00:45:00] Yeah, um, just knowing that there is. Hope out there. You just have to find what works for you. Whether it's, um, joining a group like this, uh, and doing these monthly meetings where you get to talk to and share your story and, and ask for help from other, um, moms, or, um, reaching out to staff so that they can either give you some education, um, to make things seem a little brighter. or they can provide you with community resources, um, for some
Kerrie: mental health help, um, or even just things as little as, um, finding, like choosing a song. I know that was one thing that a lot of our NICU moms did. Finding a song that is, uh, provides a little inspiration and for me there was this, um, Rascal Flatts song, which I'm not even really a big into country, but anyway this, uh, what the heck was the name of that song?
Kerrie: I
Kerrie: won't let go. And [00:46:00] I used to sing that every day on the way to the NICU, and every day on the way home, I'd sing it to Katie. There's a strength in that song that I just kind of held on to, but just knowing that there really is help. It is not as dark, and as scary, and as, uh, just terrible as it feels. It can get better, and it will get better. You just have to reach out, and don't try to do it on your own. There's no, there's no reason why you need to. Uh, it's a very, very hard thing. I, I've never experienced anything harder and, God, I've been through some hard things. But this is the NICU journey, the NICU rollercoaster. I mean, it's called a rollercoaster ride for a reason.
Kerrie: It is so, you know, windy and ups and downs and setbacks and, you know, you have to, you have to just reach out to whoever and wherever you can. To find somebody [00:47:00] who will help you get through it. And it just makes it a little bit easier and a
Kerrie: little more bearable. Until you can get to the other
Kerrie: side of it, you know?
Ashley: So beautiful.
Aisha: Well, it's so wonderful and I'm so grateful that we got this chance to talk. I feel like we can talk for hours and hours.
Kerrie: Yeah!
Aisha: You are just, um, you know, it's, you have been such a gift. Um, And I'm so glad that you
Aisha: decided,
Kerrie: you guys.
Kerrie: Yeah.
Aisha: that you decided to take that courageous step and look, and that you were able to find Dear NICU mama and already, um, it's just been so evident that not Only I know it's been so beneficial for you, but you have also just like from the get go been so willing to also share your knowledge.
Aisha: And I mean, you're the first to say like, if anyone wants to reach [00:48:00] out, like, this is where you can find me and just always so available. And I think that that is just so, so remarkable and you are such a. Oh, wonderful, um, human being, mother and nurse. And we're just so grateful for you and your knowledge.
Aisha: So thank you so much for, for joining us today on this conversation.
Kerrie: that. Thank you guys. I appreciate being here. Really, I'm honored. I think, I thank you both for that privilege to
Kerrie: be
Ashley: is ours.
Kerrie: just,
Kerrie: we got to
Aisha: Yes.
Kerrie: we just got to keep
Kerrie: helping each other out. You
Kerrie: know, it doesn't matter if we're a nurse or a teacher or
Kerrie: a, you know, stay at home mom or
Kerrie: whatever we do. We're, we're women who got to
Kerrie: support each other through all of these
Kerrie: hard times. So just, all
Ashley: you for tuning in to another episode of the Dear NICU mama podcast. And we just want to especially recognize maybe some of our mamas who are NICU nurse NICU mamas who share that really unique combo. [00:49:00] And we hope that throughout this episode, you have just
Ashley: felt very validated and seen and just recognized. Um, we recognize not only your role as a NICU nurse and how remarkable that is, but also how courageous it is to enter those doors time and time again, to care for babies that maybe are very similar to your own. And so just know that the sisterhood longs to support you and is here to support you and that you are worthy of that support. So we will be back next week. Happy nurses week. If you are a NICU nurse listening, we love you so much. Um, you are angels. But we also like completely empathize with the need to be human. So can be
Ashley: human and ages at the same time.
Ashley: So
Kerrie: Thank you.
Kerrie: Thank
Ashley: all of the remarkable work that you do. And just for really empowering us to be the best moms that we can be.
Ashley & Aisha: So mamas, we'll be back next week for another episode, but have a wonderful rest of your day. Thank you so much for listening to the Dear NICU Mama podcast. If you loved this episode, we'd be so grateful for a review. For more ways to connect with the Dear [00:50:00] NICU Mama Sisterhood, check out the links in the episode description.
