S7 Ep9 Transcription

Season 7 Ep 9
•• Please note that this is a computer generated transcript and there are potential errors. For this recording, there was an error with the recording software so unfortunately the voices are not labeled in the transcription.

Breastfeeding & Pumping In and Out of the NICU with Bethany Hill, RN, IBCLC of Fargo Milk Market

[00:00:00] Welcome to the Dear NICU Mama podcast. Our mission is to connect the past and the present NICU mom by bringing them out of isolation and into a sisterhood of women who can stand alongside each other as we heal and grow both in and out of the NICU. Our hope is that through interviews with trauma informed medical and maternal mental health experts and vulnerable stories from NICU Mamas themselves, That you would feel connected to the dear NICU mama sisterhood around the world.

So whether your NICU journey was 50 years ago, or whether you find yourself in the NICU today, we hope that this podcast reminds you that you are not alone.

 Hello, mamas. Welcome to the Dear NICU Mama podcast. Today's episode is unique for a couple of reasons. One is that I am hosting solo. Miss Martha has a terrible cold because hashtag cold and flu season. So we are giving her beautiful voice a [00:01:00] rest and I am taking on this episode.

But, , while it will not be as comical and as heartfelt without Martha here, , I have no doubt that the content and the guest that we have today is going to be wonderful and so insightful. So as always, we're so grateful to have all of our listeners joining here on the podcast. This community is so near and dear and special to us.

And as we approached the holidays, we wanted to talk a little bit about feeding. So last week we had an episode with feeding matters. And it was so insightful all about the pediatric feeding disorders, and how, you can receive support from their organization to advocate for your child's feeding needs.

And we also wanted to make sure to talk all about breastfeeding because as any mother, especially NICU mother knows feeding is a journey, especially breastfeeding. And oftentimes NICU babes can't go to breast right away. And that journey of breastfeeding looks very different. Oftentimes it looks like being hooked up to a pump right away.

[00:02:00] Oftentimes it looks like fortifying your breast milk with formula. It's a whole thing. And so we are so grateful to have the one and only Bethany Hill from Milk Market on the episode today. Bethany, hello. Hello, and thank you for having me. I am super honored for you to even ask me to do this. Oh my gosh, of course we would love to have you.

It's such a kind of full circle moment for me personally too because Bethany was my lactation nurse in the NICU and it's a total full circle moment to have you here talking all about breastfeeding because my oh my did we have a journey together Bethany. Yes. Yes, you did. And I honestly, just from a professional watching you in the NICU and your struggles, not only with breastfeeding and pumping, um, but just the emotional roller coaster that the NICU is, , it's been rewarding to watch you create Dear NICU Mama and everything that it's bringing to Your [00:03:00] community of moms.

, so yeah. And today I'm wearing my shirt that you had in your first shirt sale that I hit up immediately. I thought it was posted. Um, so yeah, no, you're the best. You're so sweet. And Your words mean so much. And I just like, when I reflect back on my feeding journey, I just remember the tears I would have when I'd be like, can you just call Bethany?

I need Bethany. And I remember one time, I think it was like the second or third time I had mastitis, which is just. A comical to say out loud, but I remember like calling you into the room and I had Silas's NICU tub and I was like soaking my right breast in the tub of Epsom salt and I was like, Bethany, I think it's happening again.

Yeah. What do I do? Well, I think we'd get you on the right path for like a week. Yeah. And then the next week it was like, Oh, and how awful, I mean, it's so painful. Yeah. If any of our listeners have had mastitis, I [00:04:00] think we're all like grabbing our boobs in solidarity for a minute because we just remember how bad that felt.

But we're so excited to have you on here and your expertise and just your empathy for breastfeeding and feeding. And you have been on a super exciting business venture. So why don't we first just start by having you tell us a little bit about you and your experience in lactation and then also your recent venture with milk market.

Sure. So by profession, I am a registered nurse and I have worked for 17 years with the majority of it being in maternal child health. Um, specifically bedside NICU RN for seven plus years. Um, and then At that time was when I was having my three children, um, and was busy with the whole breastfeeding pumping world and kind of led myself to realize that When I was working NICU bedside, I was most invested in [00:05:00] those moms, um, pumping journeys and what that was looking like and, um, the support that they needed in that realm.

And so that led me to seek out a lactation position as an RN. And so that is where I. And the next seven to eight years, which leads up to now where I am not working in a hospital or clinic right now I am working in my retail store called the milk market where we are trying to support Any journey of breastfeeding, pumping, lactation, whatever it might be, , whether it's your breast pumps or your supplements or your bras, or you just need advice or you just need somebody to listen.

Um, so that's where I'm hanging out now, Monday through Friday. It's been super fun. You're so good at it too. And if any of our local Fargo Moorhead mamas are listening, or people that come to Fargo for shopping, or even doctor appointments, make sure [00:06:00] to go check out the shop because I've never been more inspired in a place surrounded by breast pumps and pumping bras.

I remember walking in and being like, this is a dream. Thank you. Yeah. I, my kind of running comment to moms is. You know, you could probably find a lot of this stuff at Walmart, Target, uh, but the 18 year old stock boy down the aisle, he doesn't want to talk about your nipples or your breasts. And he does not want to go see if they have what you're looking for in stock.

So this is a safe zone, you know, come in here and, and we absolutely will talk about your boobs. Yes. I love it. And can you say what the sign behind you says? You have this beautiful affirmation. When people, yeah, we, uh, It just says, you are enough, which I think for any, any mother that walks in this door, I hope she knows that because oftentimes we get very focused on what the breastfeeding lactation journey should look like versus what it really is.

And we are [00:07:00] so, so hard on ourselves and. You know, especially for the moms that are struggling with supply and whatnot, they're feeling like they're just not enough. And they are, they're more than enough for their babies. Yeah, that could be the whole episode right there. I think you just there. So mamas to all of you listening, first and foremost, before we get into kind of the ins and outs of breastfeeding and pumping, that's kind of the most important part we want you to take away from this is that you are enough.

And so maybe let's start there and also. Really make a note to that because I, you know, in my personal experience, for example, when we came home from the NICU was when I stopped pumping and breastfeeding, and I had to make that decision for my mental health because I found it to be really difficult to be pumping and trying to hold a bottle and feed at the same time.

And I tried for like a few weeks and I was like, I can do this. I can do this. And [00:08:00] I was always so grateful for The lactation nurses that came into it with practical tips of how to keep going and also the empathetic approach that your mental health is, is more important. And so, we also want to reiterate first and foremost that fed is best and, , that if your mental health is suffering and you need to, to pause or take a step back from breastfeeding that you are not less than of a mother, that you are not providing less than for your baby.

And I know, Bethany, you, , Embody that message because even in the NICU, I was contemplating quitting many times and you gave me that permission if I needed to you instead of like shaming me and saying, Oh, it'll get better. It'll get better. He said, if you want my help, I'm here, but I also support you if this isn't working and you need to step back.

And so do you have any encouragement for the moms who are kind of at that deciding place mentally and emotionally of, you know, maybe the feeding journey has just been really difficult and they're [00:09:00] ready to stop or pause? Do you have any, you know, initial advice for those moms? Um, well, like you said, you, you guys need to take care of yourselves because you need to be able to take care of your babies.

Um, and I realized it's, it's a totally different setting when you're in the NICU, , but you still need to be there for your babies. , and if that looks like weaning and being done. That's okay. , and it's funny that you even mentioned that I gave you permission, which I, I think a lot of people are seeking that they're just, you know, as a lactation consultant in the NICU at the hospital, we oftentimes are visiting you guys daily.

And that can be overwhelming for you guys, too. It's kind of like, oh, here comes that lactation gal again. I didn't do what she told me to do yesterday. I, I can't do it tomorrow. I just, I wish she'd, you know, maybe go away. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and sometimes moms ask us to go away and that's absolutely [00:10:00] acceptable.

Um. But yeah, you have to take care of yourself. And so if that includes being done, it's okay. Now, with that being said, you know, maybe you're, you're doing the eight pump sessions a day. You're doing all the things and you're like, I can't keep this up. What else could it look like? Could we cut back to four times or five, you know, whatever the number might be.

And is that more manageable sometimes just removing one session? It's like. You can breathe like, Oh my gosh, I just, I got two more hours of sleep or I got to play with my other kids that are at home and I'm trying to manage my time between my home life and my baby in the NICU. And yeah, we are so hard on ourselves that we won't give ourselves the permission to do that.

Yeah. And yeah, so I think sometimes after I've visited somebody multiple days in a row, I can start to sense like, you know what, I [00:11:00] think she needs somebody to just tell her, it's okay. You don't have to do it all. You don't have to do that. And that's hard because a lot of times we're coming in and your immediate questions ends up.

Um, a lot of times have to do with supply and how do I make more milk because a lot of times we're dealing with low supply. And of course, we tell you that that looks like more pumping sessions and more milk removal and do more, do more, do more. And that it's just not something that you guys can do. I mean, time management is, I think a lot of people might look at it like, Oh, well, you had your baby and now they're in the NICU and somebody else is taking care of them.

What more could you do? You can, you can pump eight times a day. You have all the time in the world. You're not at home up all night, feeding your baby at home. You're in the NICU. Um, but that's not reality. I mean, you guys are traveling from hospital to home. Life didn't stop when your baby was admitted to the NICU.

Um, whether that has to do with. work or [00:12:00] just family. Um, you know, if it's your first baby, you may find that you have more time to be up there, but moms who have other Children at home, they sure don't. Um, so yeah, I, uh, I think I lost track of where I was going with things. No, you're saying everything beautifully.

I'm like nodding my head this entire time. Yeah. And it just is bringing me back to just how much of a journey the feeding journey in the NICU can be. So I love that that's your affirmation when people first walk into the store because we need to be reminded of that often, especially on the breastfeeding journey.

And so I'm going to ask a question and this is probably like so basic, but I don't always feel like it's super explained very well initially. So can I just have a medical question for you? So I remember like coming out of surgery completely out of it, and all of a sudden I was hooked up to a pump. So can we just talk a little bit about [00:13:00] why that needs to happen so early on, so many of us are like still .

Kind of out of surgery or out of our cloud of trauma and all of a sudden we wake up and somebody's putting pumps on us or we're being told like you need to pump you need to pump you need to pump. So can you just share a little bit about why it's so crucial that we're like immediately hooked up to a pump and the benefits of that so that maybe we can better understand.

 What's happening in that moment. , yeah, so I'm not going to get real technical, but we do have research indicating that if we stimulate and move colostrum within that first hour of birth, When all of those hormones are starting to shift after delivery, we can actually have a larger, um, more volume in our milk supply than somebody who waits 4 hours, 8 hours, 12 hours, 24 hours.

Um, and so I, and I, that's where I think people get caught up in the fact that [00:14:00] maybe you get hooked up to that pump right away. And of course nothing comes out, , and maybe you don't see much of anything for a few days. , I think the first mentality is like, well, can we just wait until we start to see milk come to do the work of pumping?

, but you kind of have to think of it as needing to put. You're ordering like you would at a restaurant for your food to come. , and it's the same for your baby. And so when you deliver and your baby stays with you, you're going to typically lay that baby on your chest and they are going to latch and feed within that first hour.

Um, and so they are then initiating that supply for you or for them, I suppose. , when we're in a scenario where your baby is. Removed from the room and brought to the NICU, you don't have that baby there within that hour to do that initial feed. And that's why we really highly encourage getting that first pump session in.

, and honestly, I don't even focus [00:15:00] on getting you guys on a pump. Um, but rather teaching hand expression and using your hands because you actually will have a higher, , response with your oxytocin levels if hands are used versus a pump. Oh, interesting. , and I think it's maybe less stressful and I'm, I'm sure other moms would maybe have different opinions on using their hands on their breasts versus a pump , and stress levels, but right.

Yeah. And I think hand expression has its own place in the world too. So the education on that is, is beneficial at that time too. Absolutely. But yeah, overwhelming when we come in and slap that pump on you and tell you to hit the ground running with eight pump sessions a day. And I mean, you guys are just extremely overwhelmed and concerned with your baby and not that the milk and the pumping and breastfeeding isn't important, but you guys have a lot.

A lot going through your mind at [00:16:00] that time, right. It's like a crash course. You're like, all of a sudden becoming a professional pumper while you're recovering from surgery. So sometimes having that explanation is really helpful of just like, okay, this helps me understand why I'm already doing these pumping sessions.

This, this makes sense. It's no secret that. The NICU can be overwhelming and unfamiliar, and then you add on the feeding journey and it just becomes a whole nother layer. And so, how do you approach and provide the support and guidance to NICU parents who are eager to breastfeed, but feeling really stressed or uncertain about it?

Um, you know, education is number one, so really just kind of explaining what to expect, when to expect it, and then also, Making sure and, and they've been told multiple times that, you know, even though this is maybe what we expect, this may not be what we do because every baby's journey is different. Um, so yeah, just educating that, you know, it's going to be important to do all of this pumping so that when your baby [00:17:00] is ready and can go to the breast, we want the milk supply to be there.

Um, so that they can, you know, have a goal of what that might look like, which it's so hard to even. And a blanket it applying to every mom because every baby and gestational age and reason for admission is so different. Um, you know, so it might be months before this mother gets to put her baby to the breast.

Um, versus maybe somebody who had a term delivery that's found themselves in the NICU. They may be looking at days to weeks before they get to, um, or maybe sometimes even hours. And so just educating them on, you know, what it's going to look like. You're going to be discharged obviously without your baby and making sure that you have your pump when you go home because you are going to need to pump when you're outside of the hospital, which it may seem silly, but there are some moms that didn't think beyond walking out those hospital doors and what they were going to [00:18:00] have to do once they went home.

And so making sure that we have that piece of the puzzle in place. And what milk storage is going to look like and bringing their milk into the NICU, what it's going to look like when the bedside nurse starts feeding that milk to your baby, you know, is it going to go in a tube that is in their mouth or their nose that goes down into their tummy, or are they going big enough, strong enough that they're able to start using a bottle and, and then to a, I, I feel like a lot of NICUs maybe don't do great jobs at this, but when can we anticipate that first breastfeeding session and what might that look like?

It's hard because we'll get the green light and mothers are ecstatic to finally get to that point. But I think it's really good to educate what our expectations of that first feeding might look like. And again, that's totally might depend on the journey of, of where we've been and where [00:19:00] we're at. Um, but I think, you know, and I would imagine this is maybe how your first attempt went.

Um, but just explaining that, you know, baby's probably going to kind of explore things, maybe latch, maybe not. Um, if we do latch, we might suckle for. Three to five minutes, and then we're probably going to talk her out, um, just so that I think a lot of parents get so excited and you know, the milk is there.

That's not an issue. We've got milk volume. Our baby seems more awake, more alert, and then they get them there and they just Clearly do five minutes instead of, you know, I think the anticipation is I'm just going to latch my baby to my breast and I'm going to, it's going to be beautiful and I'm going to breastfeed them and we're going to never look back at feeding tubes and supplements and bottles.

And so I think. Sometimes even if we have the opportunity to educate on that before it even happens, [00:20:00] um, I think that helps you guys manage it better because it can be another point of grieving that that lactation journey not going as anticipated. Um, because I think after a couple of days or weeks of these really short snippets of breastfeeding, we're all of a sudden finding that we're discouraged again as if this just is not going to happen.

Um, And then, you know, maybe you come in and they're like, Oh, you know, your baby didn't gain weight today. Then all of a sudden the guilt comes because you attempted to breastfeed twice the day before. And of course, we can't measure how much milk they take with that. And so then again, we're taking on the weight of everything.

That's what we do. Um, and then that's, that's a piece where we start to. Lose the interest in breastfeeding because we have a goal of bringing our baby home. And so we just want to move forward with those feedings. And if we have to do it by bottle so that our baby can get home, [00:21:00] that's fine. Um, and so that's a whole nother ball of emotions that can come up even after we get that green light to start breastfeeding, right?

Yeah, it's just such a, and the unique part about it with, I'm sure with any feeding journey is that there's just no one right path for every mom. It varies so differently for each mom. And I think that's the other thing is we go into it thinking, well, this worked for so and so, so it should work for me.

Or you know, you get the, um, the Instagram accounts that say, well, try this and it'll work or try this. Cause it worked for me. And then you're trying things and it's not working, but it really is just a lot of trial and error to find out what's going to work best for you and for your baby, which is just, it takes a lot of time.

I think I was surprised at how, even, you know, to find the right phalange size for me for the longest time, took a hot second or finding which pump I liked. Everything felt like it took time, which you don't always feel like you have a lot of it when you're A [00:22:00] NICU parent, right?

Yep. So maybe then, for many of us, our feeding journey starts with pumping our breastfeeding journey. So could you just share a little bit of some practical tips to have a successful pumping journey? What are some things that you encourage parents to do, whether it's equipment or supplements or just like practices that you encourage for NICU parents to have a successful pumping journey?

Sure. Yeah. So like I was saying earlier, we obviously we want to make sure that you have that pump for when you're away from the hospital, whether you are staying at the Ronald McDonald or you live in town. And the nice thing and I think I highly encourage utilizing that symphony breast pump that is offered at the hospital.

I know we do have some moms that maybe they know themselves and they know that they prefer their pump that they have at home. And so they do want to carry that back and forth. But it is. And maybe you can speak to this. It's nice to know that [00:23:00] you're going to just have your pump that you're going to use at home and leave all of that at home and you just need to pack up that milk and bring it up to the NICU and then know that when you're at the bedside, you're not in any rush to get home to pump because you can pump at the bedside.

And honestly, again, back to that oxytocin level, you're going to have spikes and increases in that when you're with your baby. So if you can utilize pumping at the bedside, you actually might see more milk volume come out when you're with your baby pumping versus what you see when you're at home. So having that good pump and by good pump that kind of opens a whole nother can of worms right now in the world of picking and choosing a breast pump for, for at home.

But typically we like to see a pump that, um, like the Spectra or some of the Medillas where they plug into the wall. , and they can have a battery in them, but they're a little bit bigger and bulkier. They're going to be a [00:24:00] stronger, more efficient pump that's going to move your milk, which is important when you're pump dependent because you don't have Baby at the breast eight plus times a day helping with those hormone levels.

So we want to make sure that we're efficient and moving milk We are now in the day and age of wearable breast pumps, which is probably even new from the time that you were in the NICU And they're super desirable super convenient. You can pump on the go. You can, you know, continue to do something around the house while you're pumping, which is obviously ideal.

However, we do find that a lot of them, um, are not moving milk as efficiently. So to rely on that as one of your only ways of removing milk can sometimes decrease supply, um, which of course is not a goal unless we have an oversupply. Um, so again, just making sure that you have that good pump. So some examples would be your spectra.

Um, [00:25:00] those are all nice, solid pumps. There is a new brand called motif. , their Luna is a good one. That one's to me. It's like a sister to spectra. They're not the same company, but their pumps are very similar in how they run and how they work. , and then the deal is always had. , some good pumps. So that's obviously another avenue.

And then one other brand to kind of keep in mind if it's something in the future you're looking at would be pumpables. Okay. Um, and so they have a couple brands that are coming out that are Efficient,, nutrition and hydration, which of course seems like an obvious thing, and I always say this example when moms are asking about milk supply and what they can do to increase it.

And we talk about nutrition. , you know, you think that that's a super easy piece, right? You just need to eat. , they do recommend an extra 500 calories on top of the average 1800 calorie. American diet, um, in order to make good [00:26:00] milk and just put it into perspective. You wake up and it's like, Oh my gosh, I got to get my pump session in.

I got to get up to see my baby. I want to be there for rounds, which, you know, those can occur any time between 10 a. m. and 1 p. m. Um, and so you didn't get your breakfast in because you needed to get up to the hospital and get your pump sessions in. Now you can't eat at the bedside. And this might be very different in.

each different NICU. Um, but here in Fargo, you can't have food at the bedside, so you can't get that breakfast in while you're waiting for rounds. Um, and Lucky you, they're not coming to your bedside until 1pm today. So now all of a sudden it's 1pm and you haven't eaten anything. Right. And yes, you're going to go eat now after, but now you have how many extra calories that you have to try to fit into two meals.

And so even though it seems like an easy goal to hit 1800 calories plus an extra 500, it actually ends up not being as easy as one would think.[00:27:00] I think people really are looking for numbers on how much water they should be drinking, but typically, , just have that water at the bedside ready to go when you're pumping so that you're drinking water. Um, setting alarms. I mean, we all have our smartphones now, so you, you have the capability to set the alarm.

And then I think to, obviously your day happens and it's not always going to be consistent with what your pump schedule is. And I think some moms, Don't realize that it would be much more beneficial for you to pump early. So say you know you have to leave the house and get up to the hospital. Maybe you have to run a couple errands while you're out.

And you are going to be well due to pump during that time. Just pump before you leave. Get it done. Start that time over again. Cause that will benefit your milk supply more than if you're like, okay, I'm just going to go do these few errands. And then I'm going to go up to the hospital because the minute you get up to the hospital, you want to see your baby.

You might want to hold them. They might be in the middle of cares that you get to [00:28:00] participate in. Maybe the providers are going to come catch you at the bedside. And honestly. A few hours can roll by once that's happened and then you might get a chance to sit down and pump. So now not only was your pump session two, two and a half hours ago while you were running your errands, you're now two hours behind.

Um, and so then it's really unattainable to even get those pump sessions in if. If you're constantly interrupted. So point being, you can always pump early. You will never hurt anything by doing that. You will only benefit yourself. So by setting alarms, they don't want people fixated on schedules, but just know that, you know, if that alarm goes off and it's time to start thinking about that pump session, um, and prioritizing the pump session.

So I know a lot of moms are looking for quick fixes. They're looking for supplements. They're looking for something external that's going to. increase their milk supply, but truly just prioritizing that those pump sessions are what's going to help your milk [00:29:00] supply. Um, if you're struggling to get them in, which is often the case.

Um, and just taking some accountability with those pump sessions and and how you're fitting them into your day. Um, and power pumping. I would imagine maybe you even trial that that is a tool. And so it's really just supposed to be, um, a seven day kind of commitment where you pump one time a day. Try to be consistent with the time that you do it so that you're message to your body is consistent.

Um, and then just support, whether it's, , your partner, your family, your friends, whoever, if you, you know, who's going to support you lean into them during this time, because you will have. family that maybe doesn't understand and doesn't know how to support you, and ask for help.

Yeah, because we're not good at that at all, right? For sure. Well, and you've referenced a couple of times,[00:30:00] the, , oxytocin of, being able to boost that supply. And so one thing that we hear here often is like the importance of kangaroo care with pumping and breastfeeding. And so can you talk a little bit about why kangaroo care is so beneficial in helping boost that milk supply?

Yeah. So, I mean, you've heard it before oxytocin is that love hormones. So, you know, you get oxytocin spikes from your partner, your family, your friends, your baby. And so that all plays into our milk supply. So in a You know, traditional setting where baby's with you and you have them at the breast for every feeding, your body is going to spike that oxytocin with every contact.

Um, when our baby's in the NICU, we don't have that as frequently. Hopefully you are able to do those kangaroo cares. So typically it'll be ordered, , depending on your baby and what the providers feel the baby can tolerate. So maybe it's twice a day, maybe it's once a day. , but communicate with your bedside nurses as [00:31:00] to how often you get to do that.

, so that you can spend that time with your baby and have them, even though you maybe don't get to. attempt breastfeeding or do anything feeding related, you have that contact with your baby and you're getting that oxytocin input, , directly from your baby. And that kind of plays into what we talked about earlier with pumping at the bedside.

So 

 I'll take an hour late on a pump session if it means you get to hold your baby and then pump. , so I know sometimes like I would never, Encourage a mother to decline a kangaroo session because they need to pump, right?

Um, so there, there again, that might be one of those things where you pumped early, maybe before you came in, just knowing that you were going to hold and that holding might go for an hour and delay that pump session, that next pump session. So, and honestly, if you have one session that's late, that's not going to break your schedule.

You can always get back on track by doing a couple. Closer together too. And I think, I think [00:32:00] we often are, we are looking for a schedule and that can add stress to our day. And so trying to be maybe a little bit more flexible and, and know that, you know, you're not going to break your supply because you're an hour late.

Right. Absolutely. No, so good. This is all bringing me back. I remember I had the, um, the pump log app on my phone and I would like be vigilant to track all of the ounces so I could wake up in the morning and show the nurse, , look how many ounces I pumped. So all of this information is bringing me back.

But, you know, for so many of us, we start pumping, but then depending on our mental health or just our desire to breastfeed, there's that transition time between, okay, so now baby is on. A level of oxygen that they can start introducing oral feeding and potentially breastfeeding. And so, you know, what practical tips or encouragement would you have for moms that long to make that transition from pump to breast and long to breastfeed at home?[00:33:00] 

So again, we talked about the education and just kind of laying it out there so that she kind of knows what to expect in a course to always keeping an open mind. I mean, what I tell you, I think might happen, your baby might do something totally different. Do an amazing thing and, and blow us all out of the water.

And that's awesome. Um, but just kind of laying out what we expect. And then two, I think a big piece is like I said before, I think we kind of feel like we get the green light to breastfeed and it's all going to be magical and we're going to exclusively breastfeed and we're going to walk out of this NICU.

But, um, a lot of it happens on the outside of the NICU. And I think too. Even going from in the NICU where you have all these eyes on you, you have lactation watching you breastfeed, your bedside nurse might be in there, the providers might come in and out, and it's just a lot of, it's a very private thing, and so it's a lot of [00:34:00] public eye.

watching you while you're in the NICU. And so I think it turns off a lot of moms too. Like I said, they get to the point where the, you know, the goal is to get home. And so just feed my baby a bottle, make them grow and let's go. Um, and so I think a lot of that work happens at home. And so that's where I highly recommend.

upon discharge reaching out to lactation. Whether it's at the hospital that you have been at and you go back to their clinic and see them there, um, there are avenues of IBCLCs that'll come into your home and can help you. Um, and I think, you know, that might take a step of checking with your insurance and finding out what might be covered.

Um, but once you go home, The lactation professionals don't know that you're there and that you need them and so you have to let them know Whether that's again going back to the clinic or calling and setting up an in home visit with somebody so yeah, you may need to reach out because [00:35:00] because I think you'll need that support and the babies they typically they just need to Continue to grow and get stronger To be successful at the breast, but you know, it's funny.

I've had Actually, just in the last couple of weeks, I've had a couple moms that have come into the store and they've referenced their NICU stay with their baby. And then on the flip side, they've talked about how they exclusively breastfed that baby once they brought him home. And I will say, and part of it is that I don't always get to know what the journey does once you guys go home.

So NICU, your baby will always be as little as they were the day they did. Right. Right. Um, And so I don't always know how it goes, but it was just so encouraging as a professional to hear these moms speak of, you know, I went home and I exclusively breastfed and it was beautiful. Um, and I can't speak for whether or not they reached out and got help or maybe they had good family support.

Um, but I think just being prepared that. [00:36:00] That piece of the journey and the struggle that has come with it is maybe not going to end the minute you go home. Yeah. Um, cause like you said, you know, now, now you're managing this pump schedule and the feeding schedule and a baby. Mm hmm. Um, and I think too, you know, bringing a baby home from the NICU is certainly a different level of stress than bringing A baby home that hasn't spent time in the NICU, right?

Absolutely. Well, it's just encouraging to, to hear that it is possible because you know, one of the more common questions we get asked in the group is, am I kidding myself or is this possible? Is breastfeeding my baby possible out of the NICU? And so hearing that it is, is really encouraging for the moms in our community who long to have that feeding journey.

And that's an option for them. And so, um, Again, yes, encourage moms to reach out to lactation. I remember there was like some, are they called milk cafes or something like that where you can? Yeah. [00:37:00] Well, actually both hospitals here in Fargo offer, um, one's called baby cafe and one's called tender transitions, but same idea.

Yeah. And there's lactation consultants available. There's scales there. Zero judgment, I think. And this goes for any new mom. I think they look at that scenario and think, Oh, I have to go breastfeed my baby in front of people, you know, what's this going to look like? This sounds scary. Um, and I always just encourage, you know, go there once.

Feel it out. If you walk out of there and you're like, you know, that wasn't my cup of tea. I don't want to do that again. You don't have to come back, but you might walk out of there and be like, Oh my gosh, that was amazing support. They were listening to me. They understood me. We've got maybe a new plan.

Um, and, and two, I think even just being able to put your baby on that scale and see that weight, regardless of how the feedings are going or what you're doing for feedings, um, you know, and nobody in there is judging. You know, Maybe you attempt to breastfeed and your baby screams at the breast and then you [00:38:00] offer them a bottle and they happily take it.

And that's, you know, all that you accomplished that day. But, um, I hope women understand it's a, it's a group that's going to support you. There's nobody there that's going to bring you down. And I think though, as a whole, and unfortunately it probably is. More than if you community, it can be hard to go in there though and see, um, term babies that are thriving that have had a different journey than, than your own.

So that I will say can be emotionally hard sometimes too. Right. Absolutely.

Well, Bethany, you are a wealth of knowledge. This conversation has been so insightful and brought back a lot of memories for me of my feeding journey and my, , pumping journey.

I think., feeding is just such a personal, , an emotional journey, right? And so having you have such a great balance of both the practical elements of it, but also just the empathetic and [00:39:00] compassionate element of it.

So, so, so grateful for your time. And one question that we always like to ask at the end is if you have any, you know, last words of encouragement or advice that you would offer, um, for moms who long to keep breastfeeding or pumping in and out of the NICU, where they really long to have that breastfeeding journey when they're home, um, or moms who have made the choice to stop, you know, what kind of general encouragement would you offer to the breastfeeding pumping community listening?

I think the biggest thing is to just take it one day at a time. Um, I think often we're looking at really lofty goals of six months or a year. And I just don't feel like you can apply that, um, once you're in that NICU journey. And so if something didn't go well the day before with your pumping schedule, just do what you can today and move forward.

You can't fix what happened yesterday anyways. Um. And honestly, I feel like it's [00:40:00] got to be a lot less stress to just take it one day at a time and not worry about that lofty goal of, of, you know, meeting six months to a year. And then just, you know, don't be so hard on yourself. You guys are doing amazing.

And, um, we really are asking you to do a lot on top of just being there for your baby and loving your baby. And so be gentle with yourselves. Yeah. Well, and like the sign behind you says you are enough. You are. You are enough. No matter every drop is enough. Yeah. Yeah. So beautiful. Well, thank you so much for your time.

What our listeners could not see is that you are at the shop today and you sold two breast pumps today, which is fantastic. So like I said at the beginning, um, you're saving the world one boob at a time. You really, really, one breath at a time. Yes. I love it. Well, to all of our [00:41:00] moms listening, we just want to reiterate from the very beginning that you are enough no matter how much your pump log says, no matter the amount of ounces that you've pumped today, no matter if you've chosen to breastfeed or not to breastfeed, that you are enough and you're more than enough for your baby.

And so we hope that this episode provided some practical and tangible tips on your feeding journey and know that this sisterhood is here alongside you to support you and uplift you along the way. So Bethany, thank you again for your time. We will make sure to link all of the ways to connect with her and milk market in the show notes, but mamas have a wonderful Thanksgiving and we'll be back with you in a couple of weeks.

Thank you so much for listening to this week's episode of the Dear NICU Mama Podcast. If you loved this episode, we'd be so grateful for a review on any of the podcast platforms. And we'd love to continue connecting with you via our social media pages or a private Facebook group. And ultimately, NICU Mama, welcome to the sisterhood.[00:42:00]