S7 Ep4 Transcription

Season 7 Ep 4
•• Please note that this is a computer generated transcript and there are potential errors.

Jess | Jamie + Morgan’s NICU Journey

Intro: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Dear NICU Mama podcast. Our mission is to connect the past and the present NICU mom by bringing them out of isolation and into a sisterhood of women who can stand alongside each other as we heal and grow both in and out of the NICU. Our hope is that through interviews with trauma informed medical and maternal mental health experts and vulnerable stories from NICU Mamas themselves, That you would feel connected to the dear NICU mama sisterhood around the world.

So whether your NICU journey was 50 years ago, or whether you find yourself in the NICU today, we hope that this podcast reminds you that you are not alone.

Martha: Hey friends! And welcome back to the Dear NICU Mama podcast. It's your host, Martha and

Ashley: Ashley!

Martha: Ashley Ham, star of the world.

Ashley: Mink! We should really start like a little telegram business where we sing telegrams [00:01:00] for people.

Martha: You know what? That's exactly what we need to do is start a business.

Ashley: you, are you traumatized? Listen to this song and then we'll sing them a song about how healing is lifelong and you're not alone.

Martha: This is true. We should, we should do that. I did send that. I felt so, uh, someone was going through something else. The, uh, that's not related to the NICU, like a life. trauma thing. And I literally could, I just like went and copied and pasted a bunch of stuff for our website. And I was like, look at all this because it just applies.

Martha: It doesn't matter what you're going through anyway. Um, it's hot where I am at. I wish it was fall, but it isn't quite up where we are. Um, but fall means so many things for those in our community. It means back to school and cold and flu season, LOL, RIP. TTYL. Um, and also for you, Ashley, such a busy time, such a busy time.

Martha: Cause you run a global nonprofit and then also have another job.[00:02:00] 

Ashley: and sometimes for fun I just look at jobs online just to see what's out there. What's wrong with me? Oh wait, I'm on Enneagram 3. It is what I do.

Martha: are you okay?

Ashley: Yeah. Are you okay?

Martha: I don't know. I, anytime you ask that you're like people, that's something that happens a lot in the girls night out is they'll be like, Oh, where are you on a scale of one show? And I was like, how do we, I didn't even know.

Martha: I didn't know there would be a quiz anyway. Um,

Ashley: I'm actually doing pretty good today though because it has, it's finally broken the heat a little bit. It's like 75, it's kind of rainy, cloudy, so it's a good day to be inside recording this podcast. So I'm very excited.

Martha: Well, your skin looks super great and glowy

Ashley: Well, if you were to see up close, you'd see my hormonal acne all up down here.

Martha: I've got two right here. It looks like I've got two Marilyn Monroe piercings, but they're red and

Ashley: What if you just passed? What if you,

Martha: You

Ashley: if you took a

Martha: it out or something.

Ashley: No, we're going to keep that. What if you took a [00:03:00] Sharpie and just colored them black and then they became beauty marks,

Martha: That'd be great. I guess I look like, like that would be like a, like, it's kind of like a reverse, reverse vampire situation or I don't know. I'm sorry.

Ashley: I have been double cleansing though. And I do like it.

Martha: it is, it does help a lot. And I know that's, that's LOL because look at this, but I'm going to get them no matter what, but it helps so bad.

Ashley: I'd rather get two than fifty,

Martha: exactly.

Martha: It's crazy. But yeah, double cleansing. I, you know what? It's so gross. This is not, thank you really. I'm so sorry.

Ashley: But it is hormonal related and we are all hormonal women, so

Martha: When you use the micellar water or whatever it is that you use, but the micellar water, I use a cotton pad to wipe it off. Right. And it, in the morning, I've washed my face like the night before.

Martha: And it's like so disgusting. And I'm just like, I'm a gross, I'm like Shrek. you know, just walking around in the best

Ashley: You are beautiful and loved just as you

Martha: Well, speaking of people who are beautiful and loved, I'm thinking about our guest [00:04:00] today. Um, you know, sometimes we interview on this, uh, wonderful podcast experts in the field of neonatology and maternal mental health.

Martha: And then sometimes we get the wonderful special gift of having parents just like you, NICU parents and alumni that come on to the podcast and share their story about who they are. And, uh, Today's guest is super special because even though we've only known them for approximately two years, LOL, right? Or something like that, two or three years, um, we've, I feel like we've known you forever and we've, um, we also are extremely blessed to have, um, This guest as one of our team members who helps us as a moderator for the, uh, Dear Nikki Mama Facebook group, which has like almost 7, 000 members or something like that.

Martha: It's crazy. So welcome to the stage, Jessica McCloskey.

Jess: Hello. Who's that girl? It's Jess.

Martha: Yes, that's you.

Jess: Hi.

Ashley: [00:05:00] Yes! We should have played that introduction for you!

Jess: I just sang it. It's fine.

Ashley: I miss that opportunity as a creative director. Darn

Martha: think that Jess is, okay, a couple of things because every time we have a team member on, we just like love bomb you for approximately five, five to seven minutes. So, um, a couple of things. I think that Jessica is so real. So fun and also just like a walking love bomb herself.

Martha: I love how you take care of people and like in such a special and unique way. And you are so tenderhearted and you're nurturing, which obviously lends itself to the work that you do. But you also, we were so surprised when we got to meet you in person. We had a retreat last year and oh my gosh, you had us all in stitches.

Martha: You're so

Ashley: Oh yeah, you took us by surprise in the best way. I remember the, after the first night I looked at Martha and I was like, she is so much fun.

Martha: It's so much

Ashley: We [00:06:00] knew you were fun, but then meeting you, it was like a new level. It took us all by surprise.

Jess: it. It's like severe only science, only child syndrome. I, um, just like have all these things I want to say. And when I'm around so many people, of course, I'm going to share it with you. And I'm going to tell you how you are not Shrek. You are Fiona.

Martha: Right.

Jess: hot Fiona, like Shrek the musical Fiona,

Martha: Yeah. Yep. Yep. Even at the end. I feel like, you know, even when she's green, she's, she's a babe. So maybe

Ashley: And you know

Jess: she's a multiples mom.

Martha: Yeah. She's.

Ashley: chose to be green. You know, at the end of the day, she could have gone back to being, like, the blondie perfect little princess, but she chose to be green.

Martha: She probably, you know, the mud in the swamp probably was a good

Ashley: Wait, did you guys know that the, the guy who sings the Smash Mouth guy died?

Martha: Oh yeah.

Ashley: who sings all star, but he died. I saw that and I was like, oh

Martha: failure. Oh, that's

Jess: Yeah.

Ashley: failure.

Martha: Yeah.

Ashley: No.

Jess: a rock star.[00:07:00] 

Martha: there you go.

Ashley: It tracks. Or if you've had severe preeclampsia,

Jess: hmm. Truth.

Martha: But I'm, help, hashtag

Ashley: bring it back.

Jess: I don't know if you remember, Martha, but I was Fiona for Halloween last

Martha: I remember cause you were a babe. Oh my gosh.

Jess: the first person I sent a picture to was Martha.

Martha: You should put those in the link, those in the, in the description

Ashley: The episode description. If you would like to see Jess, just send us a DM and we'll get that to ya.

Martha: Oh, it's so. I also, you know what you are? It's like, you're like, um, if you were a kid and you had a sister who had like a cool best friend or like a camp counselor you love, that's

Ashley: Mm hmm.

Martha: That's the vibe you

Jess: for it. Oh,

Martha: just so accurate and so fun. Um, and of course, you're the mom to two beautiful boys. Um, who we'll talk about a little bit today and hear more about their story.

Martha: But, um, you bring multiples moms. You give them the best name ever. You are a role model for [00:08:00] that, for that group. Also featured in one of our, um, illustration collections, our sticker collections.

Ashley: Mm hmm.

Martha: One of her images was kind of turned into a really beautiful tribute to to multiples mamas And so definitely go on the website and look at the illustrations by Raya Hope and see if you can find which one is her It's the hot one.

Ashley: there's the one with two

Martha: Yeah

Jess: Yes, with the two little boys.

Ashley: I love it. Okay, well, can we start at the very beginning, Jess? Let's chat a little bit about when you found out you were pregnant with Morgan and Jamie.

Jess: Yeah. Okay, so, um, everyone's going to take a trip on the Magic School Bus to 2020.

Ashley: Oh my gosh. Scary. Can we not? Just kidding for you, we will.

Jess: Yeah, um, I had just got married in 2019 and my husband and I were like ready to just like explore what our family would look like. Um, and we didn't know when that would be. And then my dad got pretty sick [00:09:00] during COVID. Um, it was like the beginning of COVID in the United States and he got pretty sick and he ended up passing.

Jess: And I had this realization at his wake when we were all lit, as could be, um, just like my dad would have been. And we said, why aren't we trying to make a baby? And we did, um, a few months of just like learning what that meant to us. And we didn't necessarily, we weren't successful at first. So I went and I got one of those.

Jess: fun little Amazon kits. And I was like, let's learn about ovulation, you know, something that they don't really teach us about at all as women, um, that we're just like kind of forced to learn ourselves. We know what, we know what a period is, but what's the rest of it mean? And, um, I kind of did that for like a month and was like, what, this is kind of just like not feeling right.

Jess: The whole world is chaos. And why don't we just stop? So we did. Um, I had like a month's worth of [00:10:00] those tests. And after that, nothing happened. And we were like, well, we'll just stop for now. And that's when things happen, right?

Ashley: Yep.

Jess: Um, so I got pregnant in June of 2020. And I found out because I was sitting on the couch and I was like, I don't want to get up.

Jess: I don't want to do anything today. And I liked having time to do things. We had just bought a house. So every day I was enjoying, um, being, you know, locked in the house with my husband, which I know a lot of people. It was, that's a sensitive time. I get it, everybody.

Martha: Yeah.

Jess: But I enjoyed doing things and I was kind of, In the vibe where I was just not having, having it that day and got up and I had a pregnancy test from the dollar store and I was like, well, let's just try it.

Jess: And I was pregnant and my husband was, uh, on a work meeting and he heard me just like, kind of like, he was like rushing out, probably thought I was dying and he was like, what's going on? And I said, Says what and I'm trying to make words and [00:11:00] I'm pointing and he's like, oh man, you're pregnant, huh? So, um, we were just like floored we were excited like of course Like I said, it's when you don't try to do things that it all ends up working out

Martha: Mm hmm. Yeah. And that was so, so early in COVID still, like the summer right after was still so many unknowns and so much that, you know, we, none of us knew what to expect.

Jess: at all, and I was working, I was a preschool teacher at a school district that was like a 45 minute drive away, and I loved it, I mean it was good money, it was what I needed as a young woman, but then I started to think, okay, we have a baby coming, I don't necessarily want to drive all that way, and kind of tried to like look at what the future would look like, and how could you?

Jess: We had no idea, you know,

Martha: Yeah.

Ashley: Yeah,

Jess: all these things you think about when you become a new parent, you had no idea what was going to happen. So why am I even thinking about work? I was summer. So I didn't have, I wasn't in, um, in school. We were a traditional school district calendar where we had summers off. And [00:12:00] I was just kind of ready to just say, okay, let's just do it.

Jess: Let's just see what happens and kind of go with the flow. And that's what we tried to do. And then uh,

Martha: And then what happened, Jess?

Jess: So then, um, I went to the doctor, you know, like you do, and she has an ancient ultrasound machine that she reels in and she's, um, she's also my gynecologist. So she put it on there and she's like, Oh, you're pregnant. You were right. You know, One of those moments where you're like, okay, yeah, I'm so glad that my insurance is going to cover this because I could have told you that too.

Ashley: My dollar

Jess: yeah, yes, exactly. So, um, she scheduled me out to go see OB and because of COVID, my husband wasn't going to be able to come. And I was like, this is our first kid like that is such a disappointment. I went and I booked a um, baby image 3D, okay. One of [00:13:00] those nice people that love to, love to have this intimate setting and there was like music playing and it was gorgeous.

Jess: But when I signed up for it, they were like, are you interested in finding out the gender? So I said, yeah, what's that about? And she's like, it's a hundred dollars and you get your blood drawn and then we send it and we tell you, or we can tell someone else if you want it to be a surprise. And it was like all, you know, It's like when you go to the store and somebody's telling you all these cool things about some new product.

Jess: So I said, yeah! So I went there that morning, and I got to see the room that the ultrasound would be in, and I got my blood drawn. Then I came back with my husband about two hours later. And realized that I just wasted a hundred dollars because there were two babies in there.

Martha: Oh my god,

Jess: um, they were definitely fraternal when they got them on there.

Jess: They, they saw that they were the two separate sex and everything. So they had kind of looked at me and were like, well, maybe you can do two gender reveals.[00:14:00] 

Ashley: Oh my gosh.

Jess: Because unless it came back that they were both like that, there was like the girl DNA, then they both be girls. But if it was boy, there was no way to tell which one was a boy or if they both were,

Martha: so crazy. 

Jess: Yeah, so it was just one of those moments where we're like, well, let's just, like I said, just try it out. See what happens. No planning, really. We don't know what's happening yet in the world. So we did a little gender reveal where one of my friends had made little cake balls for me and my husband.

Ashley: Love it.

Jess: Yep. Um, we did have some extra that we ended up like bringing to his parents house.

Jess: We found out that there was a boy. We knew one was a boy and, um, The, the moment I'll never forget was that I was cursing COVID the whole time, right? We all were. But also, I didn't get to see my husband's reaction because we had these big funky masks on our faces. Love that we did. I was all for that, but I was like, man, I would have loved to see that jaw drop.

Ashley: Right. No kidding.[00:15:00] 

Martha: Jess, what was your reaction when you found out it was twins? Do twins run in your family? I'm sure you've told us this a hundred times, but I cannot recall.

Jess: so my grandma was a twin back in 30, whatever, or so 1930s. And, um, obviously medical equipment wasn't as, as advanced as we are today. And her twin brother didn't make it. Um, and I think I was, like I said, I was mad. I just wasted a hundred dollars.

Martha: Yeah.

Jess: My only reaction wasn't, Oh man, this is going to be expensive in the future.

Jess: It was a hundred dollars.

Ashley: That was a hundred dollars. We're in a global pandemic. We are pinching pennies right now.

Jess: Yeah. Like I didn't know if I was going back. With COVID and the schools and everything who knew if I was going to be going back to work and um, But I think I was more so in This mentality that I think I knew and I kind of went back and I thought about all the times that things had just felt [00:16:00] like it would be that way.

Jess: Um, the day I found out I was pregnant, my aunt called me to tell me that she found a set of bunk beds on the side of the road and she was going to pick them up. Um, and if I ever needed them, she'd have them. 

Ashley: Oh my gosh. 

Jess: Then, the day I found out that they were twins and I was going to text her, she had sent me a picture.

Jess: I have chickens, um, at home. And she had sent, she's an egg lady. She loves my eggs. And she had sent me a picture of three of my chickens eggs, all different colors. We have some that lay blue, brown, green. Um, she said sent me a picture of them and three of them had been double yolks. And,

Ashley: my gosh.

Jess: We just kind of like, you know, my husband and I, I was like, I got, I was about to call her and I opened my phone to see this text message.

Jess: So when I called her, I said, I, you, you knew it, didn't you? And she said, yeah, she was like, I just, I had a feeling. Cause we talked to her about starting our family journey and what that would look like, and she said, I saw those two beds and I just knew. And she, she'll say that she knew it was two boys, but I don't know if I [00:17:00] find that.

Martha: Yeah.

Jess: But yeah,

Martha: your mom or your dad's sister?

Jess: this is my dad's sister. And, um, she's always been like the second mom to me. My parents were never together when I was young. I was always going to my grandmother's house and she lived right down the street from this aunt. And I'm very, very close with her children. Um, on my dad's side, all of her, my grandmother's children have one girl.

Jess: I'm the only one that's an only child, so the rest of them all have separate brothers, but we're pretty tight. Like, all of us girls are tight. So we, um, especially our two aunts always look out for the girls that on their side was my dad. So they, they're like, Oh, you have a man that's trying to look out for you.

Jess: I'll look out for you too,

Ashley: ha. I got you.

Jess: Yes. And, um, so it was just one of those things where I just, I was, I was elated because I had never seen that experience firsthand. I didn't really have friends that were twins growing up. I didn't ever have family members [00:18:00] that were pregnant and had twins or anything like that.

Jess: So, um, that was, I was just ready. I was gearing. I was excited.

Ashley: Yeah. Oh my goodness. Well, and I feel like, again, we're at this like really weird place in the pandemic where there was so much unknown, but I remember one of the like quote populations that was talked about a lot on the news was if you were pregnant. It was like if you're old and if you're pregnant, you know, like it was like those are the two of the populations that were like, we really need to be careful.

Ashley: So in your appointments, did you feel like you were given a lot of information about like staying home more or like what did you feel like you're pregnancy protocols were maybe Compared to like what they would have been if we weren't in a pandemic

Jess: Um, I will out my OB office when I say right now that they tried to talk to me about how twin pregnancies don't always have to be a high risk pregnancy and that's the truth. Um, but in the middle of a [00:19:00] pandemic. You know, there's thoughts behind that. Okay, sure, it might not be a high risk as, as you would think, but everything around us is high risk right now.

Jess: So what does that mean? Um, so there was a lot of questions I had to ask and I didn't know if maybe that was like the teacher coming out for me and knowing my, what my protocol was during this time. Um, but I definitely struggled with that communication barrier. I was young. Um, oh man, I'll have to math, guys.

Jess: I think I was, what, 24 when I was pregnant and, um, those are just things that we don't necessarily know to ask. Um, I felt like I was walking out of appointments with questions that I didn't even think of until afterwards and then I was getting angry with myself. Why weren't you thinking of these things?

Jess: And, um, again, back to that lovely ovulation thing. Ain't nobody talks to us about what it means to be pregnant. We know what We know the biological cycle of it, but what does that mean? And what do you have to do? Um, so I [00:20:00] definitely struggled with a lot of, um, boundaries. What did that look like for myself?

Jess: I'm a very social person. Um, I'm around people a lot. So I definitely did a lot of those, like, game nights with our friends. And I know half of them didn't really want to, but they did because of, you know, they knew I couldn't, I couldn't do much. I couldn't leave and, um, even go to, like, outdoor things. I wasn't, Very chill with, um, for a long time until we got to about like that viability, um, range in those, those crucial weeks until then, I was, I was pretty, pretty comfortable just keeping to myself besides when I had to go back to work.

Martha: Yeah. Yeah.

Jess: Yeah.

Ashley: So then when they were talking about how, like, a twin pregnancy doesn't necessarily always mean high risk, had they talked to you about the NICU or, like, kind of talked to you about, , potential early delivery or were they just kind of like, nope, I think it'll be normal and everything will be fine?

Jess: At first it definitely seemed like that. Um, I have a blessing of knowing [00:21:00] what the heck an NICU meant, right? What NICU meant, because in college I was in a sorority that worked in partnership with the March of Dimes. So I

Martha: I didn't know that.

Jess: Yeah, I've done a lot of work with the

Martha: You're so cool. Mm hmm.

Ashley: Hmm. Yeah.

Jess: the NICU that my boys are actually at, I got to do a lot of work with and we, um, we would do different things during sorority recruitment where we would make things to drop off at the children's hospital. There was a time where all of us were trying to get, um, certified to be volunteers there, until you realize that that's really not something a college kid, not necessarily, not that we shouldn't have been doing it, but like, it's a lot of, it's almost like applying for a job at a hospital, you know, there's a lot of things we had to do and, um, I had at least known.

Jess: What some of those machines would look like what certain things, um, meant, and I, I definitely got in my own head at first I went and I joined twin mom groups on Facebook, [00:22:00] which is a lot of a lot of our listeners right now probably found this exact organization because they looked up NICU mom on Facebook.

Jess: Um, so I joined a lot of twin groups, and I had to definitely manage how often I was looking at them because there was a lot of NICU babies. Um, especially with COVID, there was a lot of, um, deliveries that even if they were full term, they weren't early. A lot of these babies, their mamas, you know, they weren't doing so hot at the time and, um, it just came down to the point where I was preparing myself more than I think my, my, uh, OBs were.

Ashley: wow.

Jess: Yeah.

Martha: that crazy? I wonder if you could talk a little bit now, too, because what you do for Dear Nikki Mama really leans into it. And now, even the more they think about it, how well suited you are to this. because of this experience, but if you find that you are pregnant with multiples or maybe there's some other high risk elements to your pregnancy, and a lot of people do, they find this out.

Martha: And so, like you say, we try and find [00:23:00] information on our own and try to find other people who have had that experience to either validate or offer support or advice or encouragement. Um, So when you do that, you talked about how you set those boundaries. Could you talk a little bit about how you discern that for yourself a little bit?

Martha: Because I think that's a really common thing that happens for women in our

Martha: community. 

Jess: Yeah, definitely. Once we go in farther, there's going to be a lot more where I'm sure you're going to be thinking, Oh, oh, oh. Um, but yeah, it came to the point where I, I wish I would have known the things I know now, right? This is the space we have is that we have these mentors and we have these people that have walked the path before us and the ones that will do it after us.

Jess: I definitely would suggest, if you are pregnant with multiples, to one, find a hospital that does have a NICU that will support them at whatever age you might deliver them. Um, to find OBs that might actually, specialize in multiples, um, and to not just let your insurance [00:24:00] pick for you, right? Like, , I think as I've become a parent and, , in my later twenties, I have realized that if I'm, I'm giving these people money, there should be a reason I am, , I should be doing some of , the digging myself.

Jess: And, my first suggestion would always to be, you know, even if you've had children and you have had an OB that you love and you've been with, I think that there is a point where it's, it's necessary to find somebody that is more skilled and more knowledgeable in, , the realm of multiples and what that might look like.

Jess: And I noticed that a lot later in my, , journey as well. I started to dilate, I want to say around 24 weeks. So I was at least proud of myself, you know, hey, look at us. We made it to viability. Um, and that's like I said, when I started to kind of let loose on some things. So I'm sitting here thinking, okay, I went to the apple orchard and Went and picked up cider and oh my goodness.

Jess: That must be the reason why this is happening. Well, no, it's [00:25:00] not at all Just it's not it's not somebody's screaming from behind. It's not it's not but at the time I start I start progressing and I start having these you know toxic thoughts in my head trying to put the blame on myself and

Ashley: Mm hm.

Jess: The whole time it was kind of like, oh, we'll just keep monitoring it.

Jess: We'll keep monitoring it around 26 weeks. I was hospitalized, um, for having high blood pressure. Um, but I would love to paint a picture for everyone listening about a A woman my height. I will tell everybody that's listening. I am 4'10. I am not, I am not some basketball hoop girly. Um, so my little body at 26 weeks was just funny looking.

Jess: I was ginormous. The boys never laid like very nicely. They never did the nice yin and yang you see on like the illustrations of twin moms or when you go to like the science museum and you see the multiples belly. No, they were never being nice. [00:26:00] So I was always just so big, um, and I couldn't have anyone in there with me.

Jess: So it was December in Michigan. Yeah, I had high blood pressure. I had to take my pants off, my boots, my underwear, all this and that. Um, and then they would come in and they would do the exam. And then sometimes they would kind of do it rows reverse where the exam would be first and then they do vitals.

Jess: So this is a situation where they had done the exam. And I was getting dressed and then they came in to do vitals and it was COVID. So they, they were kind of monitoring who was going in each room and it wasn't as fluid as like a regular doctor's office would be any other time of, you know, our lives and I was, yeah, my blood pressure was high.

Jess: I just worked out,

Ashley: Yeah.

Jess: put these clothes back on. Um, and I was it. Okay. Like I'm going to go and I'm going to have these babies and it wasn't. Um, I was only there for about four hours, I would say. And I came home [00:27:00] and I didn't like get much of a follow up or anything. Luckily, my mother in law's a nurse, so we are a little cautious around these parts where we have equipment to, you know, do that.

Jess: So she brought over the, the nice electric blood pressure reader, plugged it in, put the cuff on and I was fine. We checked it for weeks and I was fine. And then around 28 weeks, um, I went back and, you know, I was, I was progressing a little bit more. I think I was dilated to a four.

Jess: And they were like, well, we're going to keep you overnight and, um, just kind of get some readings on the boys and that kind of scared me because I was asking, well, yeah, this was the first time you guys haven't told me , how great the heartbeats are or how, moving and this and that.

Jess: So I got really panicked and I was hospitalized overnight on my own. , Because of COVID. I couldn't eat. I couldn't eat. I couldn't eat. I was miserable. I was laying there just thinking like, what am I supposed to do [00:28:00] if, if I do go into labor? What does that feel like? Right? Nobody really talks about what it feels like.

Jess: You just hear, oh, my water breaks and you go, right? Especially a lot of us in our community, we were just waiting for those signs. The only things that TV, radio, Parents that will tell you happen. , and I ended up being able to go home the next day because everything seemed chill.

Ashley: So Jess, throughout your pregnancy, you had a couple of scares where they were checking your blood pressure. You were maybe going to stay over, maybe not. And so tell us a little bit about your delivery and what was kind of the final straw where they were like, Nope, you're not going anywhere.

Ashley: Boys are coming.

Jess: So, the night before New Year's Eve in 2020, we're about to ring in the new year 2021, I go to the OB and I'm seeing a doctor for the first time, um, because we were at a practice with multiple different doctors and I was a little nervous. I was kind of frustrated because he didn't even deliver at the hospital I [00:29:00] was going to deliver at. But I went in and I said, I'm just going to do it. It's fine. So I did my check and he says, all right. Um, I just want to know, what have they talked to you about? What have they told you? And you know, all I said was that I've been in once for high blood pressure that they deemed to be nothing. Um, I went in once because I was progressing and the heart rates were not as great as they usually were.

JessBut everything was fine and I went home. And he said that now was the time we needed to talk about starting to, um, take progesterone. He was kind of floored that it hadn't been talked about before. Um, with all of, like, my COVID Googling that I was doing, I definitely, um, definitely learned what that could be and what that would help with, and I never had the nerve to talk about it with my other, um, doctors I saw because I was struggling with a lot of that.

JessUm, that feeling that I was too young and too, you [00:30:00] know, unknowledgeable to be talking about those things. So he said he wanted to start me on, um, progesterone, explained that it was a compound drug and it was going to be hard to get, but we were going to make it happen. So I drove around for about four hours in a blizzard all around Flint, Michigan, trying to

Ashley: my gosh.

Jessfind someone that would make a compound drug the day before New Year's Eve.

JessAnd, um, Unfortunately, I ended up dropping it off on that that day and we had New Year's Eve. It was wonderful. New Year's Day was great. And then, um, I want to say it was the morning of the 2nd. Um, kind of into the, into the second. It was around midnight or so. I was like, oh man, I think I just peed myself a little bit.

JessHow embarrassing. Um, I called my mother in law to ask if it was my water breaking and she said, well, if it hasn't been a gush, it's probably okay. Um, We'll just see how it goes, right? And I'm like, Yeah, you're right. So I went on with the next day and everything [00:31:00] was great until again, it was around the exact same time the night before, um, where I got out of bed and I felt like I just peed.

JessAnd that time I was like, I definitely want to at least Go and make sure everything is okay. Um, My husband was still working from home like every day during that time of, uh, COVID and I was like, Can you just pack up your laptop in case we have to stay and yada yada and he said, Okay, that's fine. And I decided I wanted to go to the hospital that that, um, other doctor delivered at.

JessThat he, he had all this knowledge and like I had previously said, it was the hospital that I used to go and volunteer with. And, um,

Ashley: Hmm. Mm

JessI knew that they had a NICU there and I knew in my heart that that was probably what was going to end up happening. So we went in on, um, the 2nd into the 3rd. So I think it was about 2 a.

Jessm. on the 3rd. And I called my, uh, OB who was on call. Who was asleep, obviously. I preached to them because they're doing their thing, [00:32:00] but I called her and I don't think she was expecting me to say, I'm not going to this hospital. I'm going to a different one. And I think she was pretty caught off guard.

JessShe's asking questions. Well, why? Why? No, no, no. Come here. Like, I'm here. We can talk and I want to check you out. And I said, no, I'm not. I'm not going. Um, and we, uh, we were already on our way to the other one anyway. Luckily, this one. It was about five minutes from home, which ended up being the biggest blessing in the world and, um, something that we didn't even know that would, would be something we needed so badly.

JessSo we, we get there and they do an exam and yeah, one of the waters did break, um, but he has lots of fluid still. So let's just kind of see how things are going. They were both head down when we went there and it was 30 weeks and two days. And, um, they got me all checked in. We went to the, um, the labor and delivery floor and they just wanted to make sure things weren't progressing anymore and, you know, did, did all the lovely [00:33:00] things that us creamy mommies get.

JessWe got, got the, the magnesium where. Every 20 seconds, um, everyone's coming in and asking if, if I'm okay and I'm thinking, oh, I'm fine. I'm fine. Um, and it wasn't until I realized that, um, a lot of people, this is so, this is so bad, a lot of people will try to have their babies on New Year's Eve. Or New Year's Day, because the hospital gives a scholarship or some type of grant

Martha Oh my gosh.

Ashley: Oh,

Jessto the first child.

JessTherefore, the entire floor was empty. Empty. Um, so yeah, everyone's coming 20 minutes to ask if I'm okay, because everybody has nothing else to do right now.

Martha Oh my gosh.

JessAnd, you know, I remember reaching out to some people in the twin mom groups that I had met asking, you know, had you had magnesium? Um, yeah, I did.

JessIt was awful and blah, blah, blah. And I don't know if maybe it was because I had so many people coming and talking to me that I was 

Ashley: Ha 

Martha No.

Ashley: ha.

Jessand we basically, uh, got everything under control and they wheeled me into, um, [00:34:00] the mother and baby unit where Again, there was nobody there. Um, I think there was one other mom who had just had her baby there.

JessAnd, um, they're like, we're just going to keep you here. Um, we're going to do an ultrasound later in the day and we'll do another one the next morning and make sure that fluids are good. So we went in, um, that night to do the ultrasound down at the basement and everything seemed good. He had lots of fluid.

JessSo his baby a, um, and he basically was looking good. So we kept going. And, um, the next morning I went down there and. This was the morning of the 4th and everything was great still. He was looking good. They weren't both head down anymore. Like I said, they were never nice like that. They always had to lay different shapes.

JessAt this point, they were laying like a T. And the, uh, ultrasound technician, she kind of laughed. She's like, I'm not going to be able to get you a single picture of baby A. He is so low. She asks me when the last time I had measurements on him was, and I thought back to, um, [00:35:00] week 28 when I had had the last, um, ultrasound done, she had to go in with a probe because of how low baby A's head was.

JessShe couldn't get a measurement on his head. So. She said that, you know, he's just right down there. I can't get any pictures of him, but baby B and baby A are all healthy. Um, I just can't get any, any images. So we kind of went on this, um, back and forth with the different doctors about, are we going to schedule something at a certain time?

JessHow long can I keep him in there? Um, I don't want infection. What would that look like? And they said that they would end up delivering. The boys at 34 weeks, which to the date would have been the day that my dad had passed away.

Ashley: Hmm.

JessAnd I remember thinking like, whoa, whoa, that's crazy. That is just like, it just gave me chills.

JessUm, just because of how our family starting journey had looked like, we were building [00:36:00] it based off of, um, losing him. And We just kind of had a great rest of the day. I ate all the food I wanted from the hospital menu. Um, my husband was working. I think we had gone or he had left to go check on the dogs at my in laws house and he came back and around 8 p.

Jessm. I was just feeling like I had to poop. And poop. And poop. And I'm like, I'm like, babe, I don't know what this feels like. I don't know what's going on. Like, I'm trying and nothing's happening. And so finally a nurse came in, um, because I was doing so well. It was just kind of, you know, almost like a somebody come and check in making sure we had water and cookies.

JessAnd she says, what's going on? I said, I've been on this toilet for like 20 minutes and I just feel like I have to poop. And just the look on her face, I could just tell. I just knew that she knew that that was going to be the time. Um, And she had left and I just was in excruciating pain as soon as she walked out the door.

JessI, it was just like, [00:37:00] kind of like comedy. I always say it was like just watching a T, like a TV show or a movie because as soon as she turned, I was like, what's happening?

Martha Oh my gosh.

Jessit was outrageous. Um, I had, Um, I, I had an IV in and, um, she says, I'm going to go get you a ball. I'm going to go get you a ball and do hands and knees again.

JessI'm only four 10. I have a huge belly and I'm just kind of laughing. I'm like, I don't know if I'm going to need the ball. And she's like, okay, then let's just do hands and knees. So she gets me on my hands and knees and she goes out to get a doctor to come in and do a check and my IV busts and my arm is swelling.

JessIt's

Martha oh no.

JessYes, my husband's screaming. I'm like, what's happening? And it's like, you know, it's one of those things that you never think you'll see in your body and right, freaky stuff. Um, so I'm like, turn it off, turn it off, turn it off. And he doesn't know how. So I just ripped it out and saline or whatever is in there spraying.

Martha Oh my

Ashley: [00:38:00] oh my gosh. And you're on your hands and knees.

Martha Oh my God.

Jessso funny.

Ashley: Oh,

JessSo

Ashley: so exposed too. Like that's such an exposing position.

Martha Yeah. Like you're just wearing,

Jessand because this was mother and baby unit, the rooms were so small and the beds were so big. So about eight doctors come in, all of the residents as well, you know, and he, he's going to go do an exam and, um, Apparently that I was bleeding and I, I obviously didn't know I couldn't, I couldn't see half that for half the pregnancy anyway, so

Martha Oh my gosh.

Jessthere's no way to have known that myself and, um, he says, I'm looking at a baby's head right now, you are,

Jessyou have progressed.

JessHe looks back at the chart. They had come in around 730 and I was at five and I was staying there. It was like, that was like nothing had ever, um, I'd never progressed from there until eight o'clock. I was at a nine and he said, it's time. We [00:39:00] have to go and. That was the most chaotic like minute of my life.

JessMy IV busting again. Yeah, I'm hands and knees. Everything's out to everything's out for show. And Selene is all over the place. And, um, I finally get my back and he said that. And, um, Uh, a few nurses rushed to go grab my husband some scrubs and, uh, he said that before he could open his eyes, I was strategically being wheeled out of this tiny room.

JessThis bed is hitting walls. They're hitting

Martha gosh.

Ashley: oh my gosh.

Jessbeds don't break down, right? They're not the ones that are meant for delivery.

Martha Why did they do that?

JessI wasn't progressing. Everything was fine. We were going to chill for four weeks and, um, it just, it, Was just enlightening to see how quick things can happen. Um, again, like at 7 30, I was, I was at a 5 and then come 8 30 or so I was already almost at a 10 and this baby was going to fall out.[00:40:00] 

JessUm, and had they both been in, um. Head down position, I would probably just delivered right there, um, but because baby B was laying like a T or the top of the T rather way up in my

Jessribs, um, a lot of people don't like realize how unsafe it would be for that, um, that all that shared space is gone and that, that baby could tumble and wrap a cord around its neck, especially placentas.

JessSo we rushed out and, um, my husband had the, his phone out. Um, by the time they got me out of there, I want to say it was like closer to 930, because again, it was comedic how hard it was to get this pet out of this

Martha Oh my

Jessroom. Oh, so then after we get out there, um, they throw him some scrubs and stuff. Uh, like I had said, and he's just opens his eyes and just chaos.

JessI'm, I'm out the room and I just remember going into the OR [00:41:00] where there was about 16 other people. So my whole posse of like eight plus are rolling in with me. And then I'm looking at like all these people, different ages. Um, Students with clipboards and, you know, just this absolute wild feeling that like, I, I felt like an experiment and I come from, um, I have a teaching background, but I also have a biology background.

JessI have a minor in field bio. So I know what, like, what it looks like almost to be in like operation when we would do different things with different animals or, um, it was one of those things where I was like, wow, this is crazy. I was screaming. I remember just being in this utter, like, realm of, um, Just like panic, absolute panic, and the pain was so bad I wasn't able to get up.

JessI don't know where I thought I was going to go, but I was trying to get up. I was just distraught. And it took this nurse who, um, she had been there, I think she was getting ready to leave, and she had only ever come in once. So just [00:42:00] check on, um, our water, if we need any more water or whatever. She grabbed me by the chin and she says, honey, we're getting this together.

JessYour life is happening right now. You have no time to get up and walk away, but this is happening. Um, meanwhile, I hear people shouting about IVs. Um, and I'm thinking about how my arm was literally the size of a balloon a minute ago and how they're supposed to be putting something back in that arm. But obviously, you know, they put IVs wherever they can.

JessSo, um, they had a woman come from a different unit. I forget where, that was like specialized in IVs because they needed it to be now. So by the time she gets down there, it's closer to 10 and they, um, they get my IV on and she, she lets go of my face. She's kind of calming me the whole time and she says it's going to happen now.

JessAnd that's all I remember. Um, uh, it's all I, I remember her saying it's, it's time to happen now. And I, I felt kind of like, I don't know. It felt kind of like eternal, like that this was like going to be where I was forever. And that's not the way it is. It's never [00:43:00] that way. But in your head, it's so easy to get stuck in that moment where this is what life is like forever.

JessI'm going to always feel this way. Um, and I just fell asleep. And my husband said that, um, they had him ready by 10 30. Um, cause they had to do scrubbing in and they had to talk to him about things. And by the time it was 10 30, he was about to start walking down that way when they said that it was too late.

JessUm, and to him, like, what does that mean? Right? Like literal chaos. Um, she's, you know, she saw the look on his face, he says, and she says, no, no, no, no, no, no. I'm so sorry. I should have used better language. Um, it's, it's, it's happening now. We can't go in. It's, it's just not okay for us to go in during this right now.

JessSo he said that he, um. Saw two little isolettes get rolled right out

Ashley: Hmm.

Jessthey said, all right, you want to go meet your boys? And he was wearing his, his scrubs and stuff. So they had, they helped him take them off. And, um, I had brought her camera. I like to document a lot of [00:44:00] stuff and, um, I brought her camera just to see what happened and he, I love him to death, but the pictures he took were so funny when he came back, but he, he got his camera out.

JessSomebody took pictures of him doing it. Um, and he got to go and he, he got to see the boys and, um, I felt. As if he kind of stepped into the role of the patient, he didn't know what questions to ask because he had never experienced it. He didn't know, um, how he should feel because he never experienced it.

JessAnd it just felt like we were young kids. He said, it just truly felt like he, he didn't know what he was supposed to say or ask. And when it came down to it, um, He came back with not much information other than, um, the fact that they were fine, they're okay, um, and that he just waited for me to wake up.

JessAnd when I woke up, I remember just being high as the sky. I remember being a rock star. I was like, I did it! And he's like, you did it! You did! [00:45:00] It was such a proud moment, um. Even though I don't remember a single thing because I wasn't able to, I'll always remember that, um, people feel that way, you know, I've heard of my friends or my family talk about after they push that baby out that they feel they did it right.

JessUm, so I, I felt that, that proud, that proud feeling and it was kind of like, even though it wasn't traditional and it wasn't what you see on TV or it wasn't what you've been told in the past from other people. It was like, yeah, I still did the dang thing. It still happened.

Ashley: Yeah.

Jess: And it was just one of those moments where I looked at the last day that we, you know, we went back and forth through so many things that we were going to be here for so long or, um, and they were both born at the same time, technically.

Jess: And I didn't know until after we got the birth certificates that it says which one came first and second. And that's like, darn, I was going to try to milk it their whole lives that not one of them was older than the other. Um, but they came out at Morgan at three pounds and Jamie at two 14. [00:46:00] And, um, They were doing okay.

JessAnd that's all that we were told and I was ready. I was gearing as soon as I could get out of that bed, I was going to go see these kids and it only was about, so they were born at 10 54 technically after they, um, did all that. I was back in the room by midnight, I think my husband said, and I was in a wheelchair by midnight 30, like I was

Ashley: Oh,

JessI was rocking and roll. She says, we got to pump first. I say, okay, show me how. And she did took some pictures of that. That was funny. Thank And then I said, okay, give me the chair now, please. And we did.

Ashley: Yeah.

JessAnd, um, that's like the beautiful behind like anesthesiology and like the science behind it all, is they give you just the right amount, just as long as you need it. Yeah.

Ashley: my gosh. Incredible. And I so resonate with just like the fast paced, like, okay, it's happening, there's no time to really process, you're put under and then [00:47:00] you wake up and you're like, okay, fill me in. What just happened? Like, do you have photos, video, anything to kind of help me understand?

JessYes.

Ashley: Oh, man.

Ashley: So, when you met your boys then, And your NICU journey kind of like officially kicked off, you know, like, how was that for you? And did you really, was that when you really began to like, okay, this is, this is happening. This is it.

JessYeah, I am. I remember making making a point that we had this camera and we're going to do something with it. So we had video of us being wheeled up or us, me being wheeled up there. We did the scrubbing in and all that lovely stuff. And then there's there's videos of us first lifting the, um, the blankies off of their, their isolettes.

JessAnd I just remember looking at At Morgan, baby A, and just looking at his head. And, you know, they always say that preemies have big heads and big hands, big feet, but this kid has a head today. Like his head is, is massive. And I remember [00:48:00] looking at that head and thinking, yep, you were coming right out.

JessWeren't you? There was no stopping that thing. Um, and he was just gorgeous. I looked over at Jamie and he just literally, as soon as he came out, looked just like his dad and I knew that he was going to be on my shit list for so many things in my

Ashley: the one that was like shaped like the T, right?

Jesstop of the T, right in my

Ashley: Yeah, and that tracks because your husband is so tall. I don't know why, but I just feel like that

JessYeah, it was just it cracked me up and I looked at him and I just knew that this was just going to be fun and I had no idea what our next steps were going to be.

JessUm, luckily I did, um, meet with the neonatologist that was on call. Um, I want to say the first day we were there, so we hadn't like necessarily had any, um, like of the big emotions come up yet because everything seemed like normal and level. So he went through like what the different weeks would look like at, if you do deliver at 30, if you do [00:49:00] deliver at 31, if you do whatever what our goal was.

JessAnd, um, so I at least had heard some terms. So when they came to me, they were talking and you know, yeah, okay. That's exactly that checks out. That's exactly what's supposed to happen. He will need they both will need respiratory support. That's right. Um, they kind of talked to us a little bit about the different types of feeding, um, and how the first, uh, the first few days there won't be any.

JessNeed for my breast milk. So do not think that that is what you need to do right now. Do not think that that's something you need to do. And it was just kind of lovely to hear and refreshing, especially nowadays, um, listening to how many people talk about how the first thing they were told to do is just hook up to a pump.

JessUm,

Jessso it was beautiful to have that time where all of the puzzle pieces were connecting all the words I had heard and, um, the equipment that I maybe. I had seen in the past but didn't know the terms for I had that the image of what this looked like and the term for what it was and it clicked together.

JessSo we, um, we kind of just embarked on [00:50:00] that to that journey together of what does this look like now as as a family? Right? So what will that be like for us? What was really unfortunate was that the hospital we were at, um, didn't really, I don't want to say they didn't treat twins like two different kids because they did, um, but we were only allowed to be the visitors for each of them.

JessUm, I've heard of other ones where, you know, they kind of pulled it off where mom could be a BBA's visitor and then an additional family number. So we just kind of knew that, okay, they're, they're going to be our little, our little bundles for a long time. And I was okay with it because of COVID and stuff, but they're the first grandchildren for both sides.

JessAnd it was, um, it was just really almost heartbreaking as the people pleaser I am. Martha said in the beginning that I'm always trying to. Trying to make others feel so, so appreciated and so warm and welcome. And it was really hard to have to tell family that, you know, it's not happening, that you're not going to see them until we come [00:51:00] home.

JessAnd I think that was what stressed me out the most was that I got to be here and I got to share in this moment with my husband, but. Our family is not just the four of us. Even today, it's not the four of us. It's, it's his, his family. It's my parents. And, um, so it was really, I think that's where I struggled the most was that we, we weren't going to be able to share this with other people like the traditional, the traditional, um, birth and not COVID births would look like.

Ashley: Yeah, for sure. 

Martha: I think there's, you echo so much of what so many people have described with COVID deliveries to like this idea of being. Really extra isolated in the NICU and then you, you know, um, that experience of not being like really fully as a family or being able to share the boys with your loved ones until you come home, right?

Martha So can you talk a little bit about that journey to home? Like what, when were you able to come home? You know, were they able to come out at the same time? That's always another thing for, for multiples too. It's so hard. Sometimes you're caught in between.[00:52:00] 

JessYeah, I think, um, that was a thing I never had comprehended. I never had thought that we would have the journey we had where, um, we had two feeder growers, right? It was, it was lovely. I was, I was blessed to never have had any hiccups. Um, Jamie, He was the smaller guy. He stays small. He's small today, but he rocked and rolled through every single thing on his checklist, right?

JessWe all know the checklist. Um, and yeah, Morgan was usually one day behind one or two days behind that until it came to respiratory supports. Um, we could not get him off of, um, just low flow. There was, there was no getting them off of low flow oxygen. Um, yeah. And the day that Jamie came home was the day that Morgan got to get off of his low flow.

JessSo it was the hardest day and the greatest day. Um, Jamie. had stayed, um, one extra [00:53:00] day just for logistics of things. Um, I have no idea how they helped us out with that, but, um, with logistics of it all and what that would look like, um, to have him come home. So we did, um, was that my husband would, he would take his, start his FMLA as soon as Jamie came home.

JessSo he was able to stay home during the morning or no, I stayed home during the mornings with Jamie. Um, and then he would go to the hospital and do rounds with Morgan. And.

Ashley: Mm.

JessThat was really hard because I

Ashley: Yeah.

JessI wanted to be there for those times and to hear these things, but I couldn't hear it. I couldn't hear the reasoning behind why he wasn't coming.

JessIt was just so hard for me to comprehend that they couldn't be together. We also were at a NICU where we couldn't bring him back, so Jamie couldn't come back and do

Ashley: Mm

JessUm, and I remember having my husband go every morning, and it was never... It was never great because we'd hear all these great things.

JessHe was off low flow, he was [00:54:00] drinking his bottle, and then he'd have several Brady's in the middle of the night. And it was just constant where it was like, we, we made it to like, you know, so many days without anything. And then here we are again. And then so many days without anything. And here we are.

JessMeanwhile, at home trying to like manage a newborn. And, um, I was pumping at the time. So I was trying to pump to get milk up to, to Morgan. And, um, we, we successfully, um. Based on where we were living, based on the life that we were living at the time, we're able to go every single day, but it never felt enough.

JessIt never felt like they could, we could be that family because we weren't. If one of us was, um, up there, we would FaceTime. I have like several screenshots of us FaceTiming the boys and it sounds so silly, um, because they're literal newborns, but we needed them to at least have that space together. And, 

Ashley: Yeah, 

JessMorgan ended up, uh, coming home in a way that I wasn't sure would be home.

JessI didn't know if it was going to be going back in, in an [00:55:00] hour or two, but he was having Brady's, um, mostly while he was eating. And it was usually when nurses were doing the feeding. And it was so hard to not be that, that mom that's frustrated with staff, but we would go in and we would feed them or feed him at the time and nothing would happen.

JessAnd so it's so hard to not be frustrated. But then finally we had a doctor. Um, we did. The each week was a new doctor and finally we got to the one that had been there when all this kind of started because it was about like a two and a half week journey of these ups and downs and she said, I want him to go home.

JessI want him to go home and I want you to call and I want you to come back if something happens. Um, you are so close to us that I feel confident if something did happen that we'd be able to be there in time that things would be, would be okay. So we brought him home very unexpectedly. It was, we were just there for rounds and all of a sudden it was, okay, we're going to take him to CERC right now. Poor thing. Um, we're taking him right now. We're doing [00:56:00] it right now. Come back from lunch.

Martha We had, by the way, anytime someone's anytime someone says Cirque, I think it's Cirque du Soleil.

Jessokay.

Martha them to see Cirque du Soleil. I'm so stupid. Um, but yeah, that's so crazy. That happened so quickly.

JessYeah. And they took him back and we came back after lunch and we did XYZ and EP and we got to go. Right. So we brought him home and, um, we all looked at each other like, so who's feeding him? So who's going to do it? And he did not have a single scare ever since he had come home. Um, their doctors were even saying like, maybe he just needed his brother.

JessUm,

Jessand. I think we all just needed each other. I had spent so many days just sobbing next to him. It was just so unfair to him to, to do that when I wouldn't be doing that much at home with brother. So once we all got to be home together, we, um, we did the same thing with Jamie where we had my parents come over to, um, my husband's parents house.

JessSo we all were [00:57:00] together and we all got to meet them. And when we brought Morgan home, I definitely felt this, um, this piece, this like inner, this inner harmony that like. Goodness, they're all here. They're all together. We're all happy. And like I said, I was so blessed to not really have many hiccups during our stay at all.

JessUm, besides the feeding journey with Morgan, but then we really had the most smooth transition home I think we could have had. Morgan ended up nursing, which was crazy. Like he ended up, yeah, we nursed for 11 months and, um, it was just one of those things where I, I do truly think that he just needed to be back with brother.

JessAnd, um, it was just such a lovely thing. It was just incredible to see them together. I tried to take photos and it was awful because. It's not easy taking a picture of one infant, but when you put two next to each other,

Ashley: two.

Martha Yeah. Yeah. And they are so funny. They, to me, it's, they're such a, um, and this is maybe a little, they're very much like a blues [00:58:00] brothers combo. Do you know what I mean? They look, they are, you wouldn't tell they're brothers, but they have different looks and um, God, they're just, they're so adorable and so fun.

Ashley: Yeah.

JessNow they just feed each other so much different energy that I think even to this day, to this day when one of them has to go somewhere, like it's miserable for like at least 20 minutes until the other one calms down. Um, definitely tied at the hip, but when they're in the same space, they are comfortable doing different things, but they have to know.

JessThat's so in, you know, so be that Jamie's in the kitchen playing with Play Doh and I am Morgan playing with sand, but they're in the same space. They are separate. They do things differently. You know, they're different people, but they, they thrive when they are at least in a shared space.

Ashley: Ugh, that is so beautiful.

Martha Thank you so much for sharing about them And it's, it was a really unique time for you as well. I feel like within a 12 month timeframe, you went [00:59:00] through so much in terms of loss and grief. Um. and also new life and renewal in a lot of ways. And I, I wonder if you could talk about that for just a minute, just about like what that season meant for you. And especially like we say, you know, you get older and there's so much, you know, now as a parent that you wish you'd go back and tell yourself, you know, um, how did you change and how did it change you?

JessI definitely, um, felt the need to advocate that was as soon as we were home, I was, um, reaching out and it's just, it's one of those things that the world works in a way that it does. And I was reaching out to these women on these, these, um, Facebook groups, you know, Hey, Um, I know you probably don't love this answer and I'm not trying to give you medical advice or anything, but I think you probably should go talk to a different doctor or maybe, maybe you should find a doctor that is specializing, um, in multiples births or high risk, whatever that might look like, because [01:00:00] there was a lot of women that had gone through their first trimester, second trimester, as gullible as I was, as, um, As young as I had felt and I, I used that period of my life to, to just have these boys and have them in love on them because they were here.

JessWe celebrated every single thing that they were doing. And, and I wanted others to be able to have that too. And I had. been in these groups, and I had seen a lot of the loss that a lot of these moms of multiples have had, um, due to medical things where they could have been prevented. Um, and I definitely took charge, and I kind of found Dear Nicky Mama through that, that too.

JessI found, I found this group of people that were just enlightening each other. They were advocating each other to, to be the best, you know, mom in person. They were not just necessarily mom. It was always coming down to the fact that in our group, we... We are looking for women that, that are okay with being vulnerable, that are okay with, um, [01:01:00] sharing their stories in a way that might not be as, as lovely as we'd expect.

JessRight. I, I would, I, I'm going to look back at this years from now and say, Oh man, you admitted that you were a dumb young kid. And yeah, I was. And I think that that's okay. I think it's okay to know that we go through different seasons of life where we learn, um, what our strengths and weaknesses are. And mine, my weakness was definitely like medical.

Jessmedical stuff. I, I never knew what to talk to a doctor about. Um, nowadays when I go for my, like, regular checkups with my PCP, I'm open about every single thing I could be because why not? You know? Um, and that was where I definitely got out of that was how to help others see that you, you have a lot more to offer than what you're, you're used to doing.

JessLike, step out of your comfort zone, say things that you might not love the answer to. Um, but that's the way we can, we can make things better for all of us.

Martha Yeah. And don't forget to give yourself kudos for that because remember that time when you were going to deliver and you literally called your OB and where you were like, [01:02:00] JK.

JessYes,

Martha going to go to this other hospital too. That takes a lot of courage because you were in a very medically fragile emergent emergency situation and you made that call for yourself and it was for sure the right call.

Martha Like, um,

Jessthrough.

Martha yeah. So, I mean, really kudos to you for, for stepping up even when you felt really uncertain about it. Because to be fair also, it's, um, it's something we're not taught as women and pregnant women to really defend yourself and ask questions. We had a great provider on recently who said, Look up all this stuff on the internet and then bring it to me.

Martha Right? She's like, that's the conversations you should have with people. And it's, and it's really helpful. So well, Ash, do you have any of your, final thoughts or questions you want to share? You're always so good at closing things out. You're like a walking Hallmark card.

Ashley: oh my gosh, thank you so

Ashley: much No, I think Jess you've you've given us so many tidbits of wisdom throughout your episode Usually we reserve those for the end, but I feel like you've done such a [01:03:00] beautiful job of it

JessThank you.

Ashley: but maybe if we could give just a A word of encouragement to any multiples NICU mamas who maybe either just found out they're pregnant with multiples or have had maybe their first appointment that was labeled more high 

Ashley: risk.

Ashley: Um, what encouragement you'd give those moms at that point in their pregnancy?

JessI think vulnerability is the word that I would, I would offer to be comfortable with that, to be comfortable that you don't know what will happen. And, and I mean, that was all of 2020, right? I had never known what our next step was going to be like, um, I never knew if I was going to be going back to work and what that would look like.

JessAnd, um, When I allowed myself to be vulnerable and I allowed myself to, to talk to that, um, the doctor that I'd never seen before, I was, I mean, I was seconds away from asking if I could reschedule and just get one of the doctors I was comfortable with, um, but allowing yourself to do those things and, and sound stupid.

JessI mean, It's okay to sound,

Jessto [01:04:00] sound quote stupid because there are new things there, there are things that we might not know, but everybody that, that you open up to things about medical, um, you know, questions you have, they're never going to make you, they might make you feel that way. And I'm very sorry if you do, but they're, they're never going to allow you to walk away without an answer.

JessUm, to at least some part of the question, and I think that when you allow yourself to know that you might not get the full answer, or you might not get the answer you want to hear, um, and you express yourself in a way. That you feel comfortable with and allow yourself to be vulnerable in those situations is, is the best, um, advice I have for any, any mom, whether they are high risk or not, whether they are multiples or not, allow yourself to ask those questions and, and feel dumb because guess what, you're not, you're not, because

Jessyou're, because, because you're asking those questions.

JessYou are a smart woman. 

Ashley: Yeah. Absolutely. So true. Well, you are such a [01:05:00] gift to the world, Jess, um, to your family and especially to us and to this community. You have made this community a more compassionate and loving place and we're so grateful for that. So thank you so much. It was such an honor to share your story and when we had some recording difficulties.

Ashley: Martha and I were both like, wait, did you know that about her story? I didn't know that part of

Martha Yeah. It's always, it's so cool to hear.

Ashley: yeah, it was really fun to hear these more intimate parts of your story that we didn't know. And we're just more in awe of you, which we thought was impossible because we were already at the top with how much we loved you, but we love you even more now.

Ashley: So thank you for being a part of this community and for sharing your story so bravely. And To all our NICU Mamas listening here today, I hope one thing that you do really take away from this episode is just you were talking about right after you delivered and you said that you felt pride and that you were proud of yourself.

Ashley: And to any moms listening whose birth did not go as planned or you didn't have that picture perfect [01:06:00] birth, I hope you give yourself permission to feel that pride. I think oftentimes our First feeling we feel is shame, but I hope today that you give yourself permission to also feel pride for what your body did and all that your body has done.

Ashley: So NICU Mamas, you are worthy and loved as you are. Your story is significant and to all of our multiples Mamas listening, we also want to commend the, um, endurance it takes. To not just carry one, but two at the same time and to raise them. So it was such a joy to, , get to share your story, Jess and mamas.

Ashley: We can't wait to catch you guys next week. Have a wonderful rest of your day.

JessThank you, guys.

Outro: Thank you so much for listening to this week's episode of the Dear NICU Mama Podcast. If you loved this episode, we'd be so grateful for a review on any of the podcast platforms. And we'd love to continue connecting with you via our social media pages or a private Facebook group. And ultimately, NICU Mama, welcome to the sisterhood.[01:07:00]